The metaphysics of the Eucharist, The Body of Christ, The Church and God's omnipresence


#1

I have a few questions regarding the metaohysics of the omnipresence of God

  1. What is the differenc between God’s omnipresence amd his presence in the Eucharist
  2. What’s the difference between Christ’s presence in the Eucharist and the Church being the body of Christ (according to Fr Barron)
  3. What’s the difference between Jesus being God and God’s omnipresence?

#2

God’s omnipresence is spiritual; Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist is physical in a sacramental mode.

I guess you should look up what Bishop Barron says?

My take on it would be that the Church is mystically the body of Christ. Again, Christ’s presence in the Eucharist is real and physical in a sacramental mode.

Jesus is fully human and fully divine. His divine attributes do not differ from any member of the Trinity. Jesus’ human attributes are not shared by the Trinity.


#3

Jesus was just a human and a prophet. God is always out of time and space. God create the time and matter. If you understand that there will be no problem.


#4

There are many conflicts in those statements.

God does not have humanly attributes. God is unique and union in attributes, personality, essence and in all entity.

Three personalties in one person! That means three distinct persons or personality which is not possible. That cannot be reasoned in that way: A man may have three distinct behaviours according to conditions.

For salvation to whom I must ask? If Father accept my prayer but Son or Holy Spirit do not so what I can do? What will happen?


#5

Catechism

779 The Church is both visible and spiritual, a hierarchical society and the Mystical Body of Christ. She is one, yet formed of two components, human and divine. That is her mystery, which only faith can accept.

1374 The mode of Christ’s presence under the Eucharistic species is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments as "the perfection of the spiritual life and the end to which all the sacraments tend."201 In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained. "202 "This presence is called ‘real’ - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be ‘real’ too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present."203

Catholic Encyclopedia

Divine immensity means on the one hand that God is necessarily present everywhere in space as the immanent cause and sustainer of creatures, and on the other hand that He transcends the limitations of actual and possible space, and cannot be circumscribed or measured or divided by any spatial relations.

Toner, P. (1909). The Nature and Attributes of God. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm

Perichoresis

PERICHORESIS. The penetration and indwelling of the three divine persons reciprocally in one another. In the Greek conception of the Trinity there is an emphasis on the mutual penetration of the three persons, thus bringing out the unity of the divine essence.

In the Latin idea called circumincession the stress is more on the internal processions of the three divine persons. In both traditions, however, the fundamental basis of the Trinitarian perichoresis is the one essence of the three persons in God.

The term is also applied to the close union of the two natures in Christ. Although the power that unites the two natures proceeds exclusively from Christ’s divinity, the result is a most intimate coalescence. The Godhead, which itself is impenetrable, penetrates the humanity, which is thereby deified without ceasing to be perfectly human.

Modern Catholic Dictionary (Fr. John Hardon)


#6

No, but there are many conflicts between Christianity and Islam. I think you’re simply attempting to read Christian doctrine through the lens of Islam.

In essence, yes: the three persons of the Trinity are homo-ousious, or ‘consubstantial’ – they are of the same essence.

However, a Christian would disagree that they are all the same person. How would you rebut that statement, in a Christian context? Or would you merely assert it, without substantiation?

Three Persons. One God. Yes – three distinct persons… but one essence.

That’s not possible for humans, but it is what Jesus teaches.

It will not happen that God the Father ‘accepts a prayer’ but the Son or Spirit disagree. You’re setting up a straw man here. The three persons of the Holy Trinity do not act at cross-purposes.


#7

It is what you established by conjectures! Not Jesus. No. No. No.

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: ( Mark 12 )


#8

Why? Do not each one has free will? is will of Son and Holy Spirit bound to Father’s? How a god(!) could not have a free will even a very simple human has?

You claim Holy Spirit is God. You know Holy Spirit got form of a dove. An animal! So you assert God gets form of anything? Let’s I tell you the fact. Holy Spirit is an angel and angels can get form of any thing.


#9

Since you’re quoting the Gospels, how would you respond to John 10:30 – “the Father and I are one”…?

God – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – do have free will. Just as their essence is one, so too their Divine Will is one – it is united, and not in conflict.

Are you saying that God does not have the power to assume the appearance of any form He wishes? After all, we’re not saying that the Holy Spirit is a dove, but merely, that he took on the appearance (i.e., ‘physical form’) of a dove for the sake of allowing humans to recognize that He was present. He did not become a dove, however.

Ahh, but angels don’t become a thing – they temporarily take on the appearance, at the will of God.

Does Jesus make the claim that the Holy Spirit is an angel? :thinking:


#10

Just look at the whole case. Jesus do not mean that He is equal with God in divinity. Jesus point that He took revelation from God so He was given divine authority.

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; John 10


#11

If divine will is one so there is just one.

“Does Jesus make the claim that the Holy Spirit is an angel?”

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Daniel 9

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. Matthew 1

13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. Matthew 2

19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings. Luke 1

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. Luke 1


#12

Holy Spirit or Jesus is not just a form or some kind of a light. Jesus was a human with material body. So essence of God must get into that body which do not seem logical. Because God is always out of time and matter. God create time and matter.

Holy Spirit was on the worrld and moved through space. Angels have a body ofcourse not from kind of physical. Angels have a life and other senses but not with physical laws of universe. They can travel beyond of matter(universe). Holy Spirit(angel Gabriel) were used to come Muhammad in form of a Sahabe (a human friend of Muhammad who was very handsome).


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