For those who don’t know, Prostate stimulation is a form of male (usually anal) masturbation where sexual pleasure/ejaculation is attained by massaging the prostate. I have always assumed that this is immoral under Catholic teaching, but have recently heard arguments (not here) that since CCC 2352 refers only to the genitials, this isn’t actually masturbation per the Catholic definition. In my opinion this seems to focus too much on the letter of the law and not its greater point, but I would like other people’s perspective on this. Conversely, I was also wondering whether anal/prostate masturbation would be “worse than” regular masturbation, such that if one were confessing it he would have to specify the form. Is this accurate? Or is it scrupulous? Finally, would receiving a DRE be sinful if one knew it would give you pleasure, but didn’t do it for that reason? I’m inclined to say “no” per the principle of Double Effect, but I am not sure. Thanks.
I never want someone to do that to me, I will be saying no to the doctor for that!
What’s DRE? The only DRE I know is Director of Religious Education.
At any rate, I’ll say, “Yes. Sinful.”
From my knowledge yes it would be sinful. Although not explicit in the catechism, the point is that the act to derive sexual pleasure for self gratification outside the conjugal act is sinful. If someone were to pleasure thyself just by thinking sexual images, one would still be guilty of masturbation most likely. Same applies here. Whether it is more sinful is debatable as the specifics of the form of masturbation can be debated. However in my opinion it would be of similar grave matter to direct genital stimulation as the acts are very similar in respect to taking some direct bodily action upon oneself to derive sexual pleasure. Whether one should mention the specifics in confession I would say yes. Just say something like the sin of impurity through unordinary means. That should given an idea to the priest that it was not normal masturbation and gives the priest the option to follow up on the details if he so chooses. Or… Just ask him!
You would need ask such proponents why they believe the prostate may not be considered a component of the genitals?
I do not know either, but I am guessing the *E *stands for “enema”. :shrug:
Digital Rectal Examination. It’s what a doctor does to check as to whether a man’s prostate is enlarged. Routine periodic test for men over a certain age. So we really think someone is making a doctor’s appointment in order to derive some pleasure from this? Obviously having one’s prostate checked is not sinful. It is possible (although hard to fathom) that someone might get pleasure from this. Normally it lasts just a few seconds and is highly uncomfortable.
This is what I’ve meant. I’m not of the recommended age so have never experienced it but have heard the feeling can resemble masturbation.
I believe their argument is that “genitals” in medicine usually refers to the external sexual organs, whereas the prostate is an internal sexual organ and the anus is not a sexual organ at all. I personally am open to the interpretation of “genitals” in this context to mean any sexual organs or to include the prostate and/or anus, and it may well in the original Latin or according to some other Catholic definition of masturbation.
This is an insightful post, and helps me with my questions. As a follow-up, you mention that one can masturbate by thinking of sexual images. What then distinguishes between impure/lustful thoughts and masturbation? Do they mean the same thing in Confession or must one specify both?
Why would DRE to detect possible medical conditions of the prostate be any different than a woman having a vaginal exam and PAP smear? I think one needs to consider the question in that light also. Furthermore, if one neglects one’s health because of some fear of accidentally possibly receiving some pleasure during an exam and lets a treatable condition go undetected and possibly putting their life at risk, is that morally acceptable? What is worse? Some scrupulous fear of possible pleasure, (which would not be a sin anyway because it is not deliberate on the part of the patient) or putting one’s life at risk?
Also, to answer another question, the prostate gland is an integral part of the male reproductive system. Also, my husband says a DRE is extremely unpleasant.
In my experience, nothing except a root canal could be less pleasurable than a DRE. I suppose a doctor’s finger inserted rectally and touching the prostate very briefly could trigger a sensation of pleasure in some men but I wouldn’t consider that common, and I can’t imagine a medical professional tolerating such a request for that purpose.
The prostate is part of the reproductive system. It would count. There would be no need, however, to go into graphic detail during confession, unless you were requesting very specific advice about the morality of such acts.
In that case, you heard wrong. :eek:
Been there, done that.
Not fun. At. All.
Especially if it’s enlarged due to prostatis or some other infection. Then it goes from unpleasant to OUCH!
I am not sure about it being sinful but it is certainly hard to know how it could possibly be pleasurable.
No, i did not know. Was blissfully ignorant. Learn something new every day, even if it is revolting. :eek:
Yep! I also understand very recent research indicates DRE by non-specialist doctors are not very effective. They just don’t have the expertise/experience to draw reliable conclusions.
perhaps an active homosexual may have learned to find it pleasurable. i find it extremely uncomfortable and repulsive.
I don’t find it repulsive. It’s uncomfortable and somewhat embarrassing. It’s a fact of life.
As for homosexuals, :shrug:. It’s probably no more “fun” for them than a Pap test is for a woman. Sure, some people have probably built into a pleasurable experience, but I doubt very much that it’s limited to homosexuals.
It would be sinful if done for sexual pleasure.