The morality of veganism and the stewardship of God's Creation.

A lot of activity has been generated in another thread in these forums.Most of it very positive.So, I thought I might spark some conversation with some folks who don’t usually go to that section.I understand that this can become a rather heated debate.So, let’s try to remain charitable and loving.This is an important subject to me.I think this is information that needs to be shared.So,I’m taking the risk…
youtube.com/watch?v=dMyJNR2DrfY

I love animals and I also eat them.Jesus was not a vegan or vegetarian-I seem to recall scripture where he asked the apostles for a fish to eat.The apostles,many of whom were fishermen were’nt either.Please do not equate moral superiority to the unnatural practise of vegetarianism.Take a look at your own physiology-You have two eyes side by side in the front of your head that provide depth of field-the eyes of a predator not a grazer or ruminant.You posess eye teeth or fangs,typical of a carnivore.We are omnivores and have been given dominion over all
that exists on this planet.
The problem with vegans is that they want everyone else to be and that leads to extremism like the ALF etc.

Well, I am a vegan.But,it isn’t necessarily my intent to make more vegans.My concern is more along the lines of the benefits of a vegan lifestyle as concerns our environment.
I receive violent opposition to this all the time.And I am fully aware that there will be many others are afraid that I am out to convert them.
But,for the sake of argument.No…the human body was NOT designed to eat flesh.Anymore than a dogs was designed to eat plants.
There are extremists in virtually every segment of society, whether they are blowing up abortion clinics or the world trade center.And all of them are convinced they are right.
The problem with Mormons is they want everyone else to be one.
The problem with Catholics is we want everyone else to be one.
The problem with Big businesses that rape our natural resources so they can make more money is that they have repeatedly told us lies about meat ,…oh,…and they want us to be one.
:shrug:

Oh puh-leeeeze.Violent opposition!Really! A little less hyperbole if you please! When was the last time your home was blown up for your “beliefs” by militant carnivores-the "meaty"equivalent of the criminal ALF,“meat is murder brigade”?Give your head a shake friend."no… the human body was not designed to eat meat"Bald assertions hardly constitute proof-at least I gave physiological evidence.Also its pretty hard to grow rhubarb north of the arctic circle.The inuit eat a diet which is composed almost entirely of fat and meat protein.The only time they run into health problems like obesity and cardiovascular problems is when they eat a diet that is more vegan and carbo.The problem with vegans I reassert is that they want EVERYONE ELSE to do as they say.I could care less what you eat pal,please afford ME the same courtesy.

I was vegetarian for a couple of years because of my beliefs which stemmed from Buddhism. The smell and thought of eating animal flesh became appalling to me. I studied the reasons for being a vegetarian, but the environment issue was not one that I connected with. I connected more with the sanctity of the life of the animals and the health benefits to ourselves.

When God put man in the garden, man was given plants, fruits, nuts and seeds to eat. There is no mention of man eating flesh until after the flood. God *did give *Noah and his family permission to eat flesh. And the obvious requirements given to the Israelites in regards to eating where there for a reason. They were not forbidden to eat meat. They were given commandments on what meat was acceptable and what was not.

We have to put things in perspective from our religious point of view. If you take only a secular approach to the vegan, vegetarian, environment issue then you really lose all sense treading the right path. We should all look through our faith’s eyes in regards to the issues we face.

I understand the contempt and ridicule which come from not being a meat-eater. I had quite my share of it. We need to be good stewards - yes. But, we must also follow a balanced approach to life.

Peace…

MW

Thank you Mystic Warrior for your charitable and insightful input.:thumbsup:
Genesis 9, the text often cited as justification for eating animals, is recognized by most theologians as either a very temporary post-flood concession (all vegetation had been destroyed) or as a concession to human sinfulness (Genesis 9 is also used to justify slavery). St. Jerome wrote: “As to the argument that in God’s second blessing (Gen 9:3), permission was given to eat flesh–a permission not given in the first blessing (Gen 1:29)–let him know that just as permission to put away a wife was, according to the words of the Savior, not given from the beginning, but was granted to the human race by Moses because of the hardness of our hearts (Mt 19), so also in like manner the eating of flesh was unknown until the Flood …”

Oh you’re welcome.

Ah, interesting - I never read that from St. Jerome. Thanks for sharing that. By the way, I respect your decision to be a vegan. It’s not an easy path. I wanted to be, but given my family circumstances it became really hard to put my 3 kids on vegan cheese :slight_smile: It’s difficult when you have a family. Everyone needs to be on the same page.

Follow the path where your heart leads. Don’t let anyone deter you. I fell back into meat eating because there were times when I was traveling for business that there were absolutely no options. I would be stuck in meetings for days and have no opportunity to have anything else. I asked at times for a non-meat option, but all I got was a nasty salad :slight_smile: It’s a tough road.

Peace…

MW

To contrast human physiology with that of carnivores, start at the beginning of the digestive tract. Teeth, nails, and jaw structure indicate that nature intended for people to eat a plant-based diet. They have much shorter and softer fingernails than animals and pathetically small “canine” teeth (they’re canine in name only). In contrast, carnivores all have sharp claws and large canine teeth capable of tearing flesh.The jaws of carnivores move only up and down, requiring them to tear chunks of flesh from their prey and swallow it whole. Humans and other herbivores can move their jaws up and down and from side to side, a movement that allows them to grind up fruit and vegetables with their back teeth. Like other herbivores, human back molars are flat and allow the grinding of fibrous plant foods. Carnivores lack these flat molars. If humans had been meant to eat meat, they would have the sharp teeth and claws of carnivores. Instead, their jaw structure, flat molars, and lack of claws indicate that they are best suited for a plant-based diet.

Dr. Richard Leakey, a renowned anthropologist, summarizes, “You can’t tear flesh by hand, you can’t tear hide by hand. Our anterior teeth are not suited for tearing flesh or hide. We don’t have large canine teeth, and we wouldn’t have been able to deal with food sources that require those large canines.” After using their sharp claws and teeth to capture and kill their prey, carnivores swallow their food whole, relying on their extremely acidic stomach juices to do most of the digestive work. The stomach acid of carnivores actually plays a dual role-besides breaking down flesh, the acid also kills the dangerous bacteria that would otherwise sicken or kill the meat-eater.

Our stomach acids are much weaker in comparison because strong acids aren’t needed to digest pre-chewed fruits and vegetables. In comparing the stomach acidity of carnivores and herbivores, it is obvious that humans fall into the latter category. We can cook meat to kill some of the bacteria and make it easier to chew, but it’s clear that humans, unlike all natural carnivores, are not designed to easily digest meat.Evidence of our herbivorous nature is also found in the length of our intestines. Carnivores have short intestinal tracts and colons that allow meat to pass through it relatively quickly, before it has a chance to rot and cause illness. Humans, on the other hand, have intestinal tracts that are much longer than carnivores of comparable size. Like other herbivores, longer intestines allow the body more time to break down fiber and absorb the nutrients from a plant-based diet.

The long human intestinal tract actually makes it dangerous for people to eat meat. The bacteria in meat have extra time to multiply during the long trip through the digestive system, and meat actually begins to rot while it makes its way through the intestines. Many studies have also shown that meat can cause colon cancer in humans.

Comparing our anatomies clearly illustrates the fact that the human body is built to run on a vegetarian diet. Humans have absolutely none of the distinguishing anatomical characteristics that either carnivores or even natural omnivores have. Read author John Robbins’ discussion of the anatomical differences between humans and carnivores.

Yes.It’s definitely NOT for people who don’t like to prepare their own food.:stuck_out_tongue:

Carthusian monks are very holy, and they don’t eat meat.

I’m not a vegetarian, but I’m sympathetic to those who are because of genuine concerns about humane treatment of farm animals. If an animal is going to die for my meal, I’d like it to die in as humane a manner as possible.

Yes, Jesus ate meat, but since He also described Himself as “The Good Shepherd”, I don’t think He would approve of the kind of “shepherding” that goes on at today’s “factory farms”.

Can anyone really picture Christ imprisoning a calf in a small crate for its entire life, just so He could have a veal cutlet for dinner?

In Is God a Vegetarian? (Open Court, 1998), Dr. Richard Alan Young, a professor at Temple Baptist Seminary in Tennessee, discounts the arguments that Jesus was a vegetarian, as does Rev. Andrew Linzey, author of many books on animal rights and Christianity (e.g. Animal Theology). They still argue, however, that Christians should attempt to live God’s nonviolent vision here on earth, embracing compassion for animals. The arguments center on the concept of eschatology.

Eschaton means “end time.” Scholars such as Linzey and Young embrace vegetarianism because they see the vegetarian garden of Eden and the vegetarian vision of the prophets (e.g., Isaiah’s Chapter 11) as the vision for which we are called to live when we pray the Lord’s prayer (“Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven”).

Also, they note, Jesus’ entire being was one of compassion, love, and mercy. At his sermon on the Mount, he states “Blessed are the merciful.” The chronicle of his works is an account of the ultimate merciful man. “Have compassion,” he tells us, “as God has compassion.”

The world today is a violent place. As Christians, each of us can choose to add to that violence, suffering, and misery, or to withdraw our support for such violence and pain. We know that all animals feel love, loneliness, fear, and a range of other emotions. But more importantly, we know that they feel pain and have the capacity to suffer.

Today, animals raised for food live miserable lives and die violent bloody deaths. For example, pigs are castrated without painkillers and forced to live in factory stalls no bigger than their bodies. After a 20-week life of utter misery, they are loaded onto transport trucks like so many boxes in a warehouse and taken through weather extremes, without food and water. Sometimes, they freeze to the metal sides of the trucks in winter. At the slaughterhouse, they are hung upside down by one leg and their throats are slit, often while they are fully conscious. Although Linzey, Young, and most other eschatology-focused Christians embrace animal rights and liberation as central to their faith in the liberating nature of both Jesus and God, they also point out how violent, bloody, and cruel today’s farming conditions have become, noting that these conditions did not apply to fishing in the sea of Galilee. Christians, they say, should follow the compassionate Christ by being vegetarians.

As Christians, we make a very basic choice, day in and day out, to take part in the torture and death of animals for food–or not to do so. At the very least, we should all stop eating animals, and there are a host of other steps we can take. As you do to the least, you do to Him.

Or to quote Professor young, “If God is both liberator and Creator, then God would want all creation to be liberated from oppression just like the Israelites were liberated. How could the God of the exodus ever sanction oppression against those of differing social standing, gender, race, or even species?”

click and paste from JesusVeg.com.

If you live a life of suffering (emotional, mental, physical), you might feel like He does. Remember St. Teresa of Avila getting angry with God after a particularly rough day and saying, “Lord, if this is how You treat Your friends, it’s no wonder you don’t have many.”

That said, I am a borderline vegetarian. I don’t eat red meat but I will eat chicken or pork.

I’m gonna google it.I like new info.
Thanks Neil!

I wasn’t interested in watching the video, but just briefly, is your opposition to eating animals because they die, or because they may suffer?

Matrix Refugee, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but not eating red meat does not even begin to classify you as a vegetarian! :stuck_out_tongue:

I grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania Dutch Country where that was the common understanding of a “vegetarian” though, so I don’t think you’re alone in that perception. I’d ask for a vegetarian meal at restaurants or large work gatherings, and I’d get chicken. If I was lucky, I got fish. :eek:

It reminds me of the movie “My Big Fat Greek Wedding” where the groom to be tells the family he is a vegetarian and they offer him lamb instead of the roast beef! :rolleyes:

Just so everyone is clear. Vegetarians do not eat animal flesh of any kind and vegans do not eat anything derived from animals (including milk, honey, gelatin, etc.) That One Guy, will you please correct as needed?

Haha, I know what you are saying and yes, you are correct. But there are varying degrees of vegetarianism. There’s those who eat fish and dairy, those who eat dairy only, etc. There’s degrees. When I was a vegetarian I would not even have anything with meat sauce or beef or chicken broth. I wouldn’t drink milk either. The only thing I couldn’t kick was cheese :smiley: I love my cheese.

Peace…

MW

Well,I have numerous reasons which I would be here all nightt on my soapbox.But, I’ll try to keep it short.
1)Veganism is a much healthier diet.(If done with a knowledge of what you’re doing)
2)I personally don’t believe God intended for us to be carnivorous
3)A significant portion of the environment and the earths resources could be saved IF(and this is the operative word…IF…)the world just instantly changed into a vegan lifestyle.Which isn’t going to happen,…and it is not my intent to preach that part of it.
4)If you had watched the video I think it would speak for itself.

Good point. I’d forgotten about that… ovo-lacto vegetarians and whatnot. That one guy, do you have a reference link for us on that so we’re all on the same page?

oh no…I can use the help.
Thanks Raqui!

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