The Mormon Archeology Shuffle

One of the typical responses (and we have seen it here) to the question about Book of Mormon Archeology is that the Book was meant to require faith, so no evidence is needed. That is ahandy answer for a Church that knows that no evidence exists.

But the argument is a specious one.

IF the Book of Mormon was simply a spiritual book of teachings, then yes, no evidence is needed and faith is all that is required.

Where the LDS argument fails is that the BM does NOT just purport to be a spritual book of teachings, but, rather, a history book that tells the history of a specific group of people.

The discussion from non-LDS is NOT that there should be evidence of the spiritual aspects of the book…that is a faith-based issue that is not relevant.

The discussion is about the HISTORICAL aspects of the book. This has NOTHING to do with faith. If the evidence of the historical aspects of a book was that critical, then everyone would believe in God due to the evidence that suuports the historical aspects of the Bible.

Mormons try to muddy water by bringing in faith as a red-herring. This is NOT about faith but about HISTORY. IF the Book is what it purports to be, then there WOULD be historical, geographical, archeological, and scientific evidence.

Mormons always try to claim that no one knows for sure where the BM took place, so excavating is almost impossible. That is hollow because we DO where Cumorah is, and NO excavating has taken place. That tells me that the LDS Church KNOWS there is nothing to be found.

We are told archeology is not important to the LDS Church. Yet, the Church has sponsored or financed several attempts to find evidence. All have failed.

We are told missionary work is more important. Hmmmm. I was LDS. The missionary program is strong. Very strong. The goal, according to LDS leaders is to baptize EVERYONE (not just certain people as Parker stated). Imagine, if you will, how many baptisms the LDS Church would obtain (and by extension, the millions in tithes) if they excavated Cumorah and found solid evidence of two large battles with items as described in the Book of Mormon. What a POWEFUL missionary tool to be able to show the world that what was in the BM has some solid evidence that even non-LDS can agree on (like non-Christians who acknowledge archeological findings that support Biblical history).

Do you really believe the LDs Church would, with millions, perhaps billions in tithes at stake, not to mention the perhaps millions who might become LDS, refuse to excavate if it was even remotely possible that they would find evidence?

The refusal to excavate Cumorah is a tacit admission that LDS leaders know that no evidence exists. That they know the BM is not true. And that they know the LDS Church is not the true Church.

Could you imagine the boon to the LDS church if they found artifacts of the the BoM wars in the Cumorah area? They would open a museum on the site, and every visitor’s center would have artifacts on display. They would sponsor a 2-hour TV special on the artifacts.

The missionaries would carry full-color pamplates with pictures of the artifacts with an historical blurb about each one. The number of convert baptisms would soar off the charts. The archaeology department at BYU would have a 5-year waiting list for new students. Mormons might actually even read the Book of Mormon.

The only reason the LDS leadership does not sponsor an excavation of the area is that they know that there is nothing to find, because the BoM is a 19th-century work of fiction.

The sad thing is, some missionaries are already claiming there is archaeological proof.

A couple of years ago, I was test-driving a car from a local dealership with a young man who had just moved to Utah from central California. He told me that he used to be Catholic until the LDS missionaries came to his area and told him that he was part of the chosen people (central American?) and that there was lots of archaeological proof to back up the Book of Mormon.

He told me that is why he converted - because there was archaeological proof.

I did not know what to say at the time so I said nothing, even though I was angry. I have felt so bad about not speaking up about the lack of archaeological evidence, that I have decided I must somehow make it up to him.

That is what brings me to these LDS threads here at CAF. Since then, I have been extremely motivated to learn all I can about the Mormons so that I can know what to say in the future.

I think about that missed opportunity almost every day.:frowning:

:rotfl:

The only thing that can ever be found at Cumorah ( N.Y. ) is fossil remains of plants and animals that once populated the Kansas Sea, which covered N.Y. State, about 250 million years ago.

It has been proven time and time again that the BoM is pure fantasy and that the events ( peoples, cities, battles, etc. ) listed and described have never existed. The BoM is spurious and superfluous and should not even be considered as an adjuct to the Holy Bible.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem

I became friends with a sweet woman who sort of became my LDS Foster Grand Mom. We actually were going to go to some conference for LDS singles together (so I could meet single LDS women my age) to listen to some talks and then tour some mounds in some state close by, maybe Missouri, and the mounds were supposedly possible evidence of the BoM. We never went though. I don’t remember what state it was in though and I recently through away the pamphlet.

I love the title of this thread. It sounds like an elementary school dance…

*You put your gold plates in, you take the Trinity out

You put your anachronisms in and you shake 'em all about

You do the Joseph Smith and turn Christian doctrine completely around

Kolob’s what it’s all about!*

:rotfl:

:dancing:

:dancing:

You put Moroni in, you take the Nephites out…

You curse the lamanites and you toss 'em all around!

You’re awesome! I’ve often described the Mormon relationship with history as the hokey pokey.

Ok, get out of my head!!

I was thinking along the same lines, but couldn’t bring myself to post it…:smiley:

“tain’t” nice peoples (guffaw) we really shouldn’t (heehee) make fun of other people’s (hoohoohoo) beliefs. Now y’all apologize!!! (HARHARHARHARHAR…)

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem

P.S. Best lyrics I’ve come across yet (teeheehee—ooops, nature calls)

That might have been the Cahokia Mounds, close to St. Louis.

cahokiamounds.org/

Estimates of this settlement were 20,000 at its peak, which is HUGE for the Missippian Era.

The “Monks Mound” has a base larger than the Great Pyramid at Giza

And if you read about it, you will found that it was built, and experienced its hey-day after the BoM time-line. And archaeologists have found no evidence of horses, chariots, steel swords, helmets, wheat, cattle, or other things mentioned in the BoM. The BoM was a FICTION based on what they expected to find there. And they did not find anything like that there.

BoM disproved again. and again and again and again and again and again and again.

They were raised with everyone they respected filling their ears with the BoM as truth. So they continue to believe, because disbelieving would destroy their relationships with everyone they value (and perhaps their financial stability) It is primarily when those social relationships prove to be disappointing that they begin to break loose from programming that began in early childhood.

and the shuffle continues…

We’ll be fair and compose some ditties for the Catholics and Anglicans:

You put some guilt in, invent some indulgences now,
Tell the people they’re not innovations and you shake the guilt around
You ordain a ton of permanent deacons cuz you don’t have any priests
That’s what Catholicism is all about!

You put a gutless archbishop of Canterbury in,
You put an arch-feminist former marine biologist around
You sue conservatives for leavin’ and ordaining gays abounds
You act a little Catholic with Calvinist undertones
That’s what Episcopalian is all about!

What the heck…the Lutherans!

You put one angry overly-scrupulous German in,
You burn papal bulls and shout
You mock the pope and sola scriptura
and you eat lots of sourcrout
You talk about the “solas” and you break off from the Church
That’s what Lutherans were all about!

A very good try. As a Catholic I am not insulted since I know that what I have is not a product of someone’s fantastic imagination.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem

You shouldn’t be insulted, brother. It’s all in good fun. Anglicans can admit their faults and failings as quickly, I hope, as Catholics…we all need to let our hair down and laugh about it once in a while :stuck_out_tongue:

Very funny! I was thinking to add a song about the Catholics so that nobody would feel they were being singled out - you did it first and did a much better job too!
ps - you forgot the atheists, jw’s…I don’t know much about these others, but maybe they can add to it!

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.