The new religion


#1

I had a world religion humanities instructor tell me once time that religion in ancient terms means “to bind " or “what someone is bound by”.To make someone religious would mean to tie them up.
Being as such, does this qualify the popularity of atheism as a new religion. After all, atheist have their own prophets and gospel songs.
( not including the Anti-Christ denomination of atheism such as preacher Seth McFarland) we can look towards famous preachers as Jello Biafra, of the Dead Kennedys for his gospel writing and the hymn,
” All religions make me vomit" such Atheist scripture is still read and sung today that was written over 20 years ago.
Famous Atheist Evangelizes include Richard Dawkins of course, who could probably be considered the equivalent to the pope of Atheist.
Not to drag this out, but there is also a creed that Atheist follow as well
Generally speaking,
Religion starts wars, Christianity is racist.
, Atheist reasoning and psychology trumps any of that knowledge passed down for 5000 years of from the Abraham faiths.
Atheist have authority on using reason and logic to make moral boundaries for what is acceptable and not acceptable in society.
No wars have ever been fought over science.
I would have wrote the entire creed but I didn’t want to drag this out any further.
Thoughts?
Cheers! :thumbsup:


#2

If religion is defined as a set of moral standards and rules one uses to dictate their life, than yes, atheism is clearly a religion.
If religion is defined as a set of moral standards and rules one follows in an attempt to bring oneself closer to God, than atheism isn't a religon.


#3

Not all atheists are like that. Only the Dawkinites behave like that. Dawkinites are like the atheist Westboro Baptist church, very vocal, less actual content and not to be taken serious.


#4

Historically, and even today religions do start wars, because as organized entities, they create a group identity. By defining your group identity, it also establishes who is not you, and this creates a “them” in the mind of the participant. It is the same mechanism that creates an “us.” That does not, however, have anything to do with God. That’s just people’s egos and their perceived sense of self. This man (Sufjon) believes that within this very century science will radically change religion for many of us, but at the same time it will make us more spiritual and bring us closer to God. There will also be hardly anyone left who identifies themselves as an “atheist” as we know it now. That too is quickly becoming an outdated mode of thought for many scientists and thinkers. The net/net of all this is that atheism and religion are both impediments to a true understanding of ourselves and our relationship to God and one another. Both of these impediments will be significantly diminished in the coming years. Science and the study of human consciousness as well as breakthroughs particularly in the area of physics are starting to rapidly confirm long held ideas from eastern religions as well as the ideas of Christian mystics, most of whom up until the last 100 years have been Catholic. What these people have always comprehended and the mainstream (which includes church hierarchies) did not comprehend will be made manifest to the rest of us by science, which is no longer the enemy of spirituality, but a clear path into a deeper spirituality.

Your friend,
Sufjon


#5

Jessup;9060768]I had a world religion humanities instructor tell me once time that religion in ancient terms means "to bind " or “what someone is bound by”.To make someone religious would mean to tie them up.

I believe the ancient term and practice was called “Covenant”. Which bound the two parties as one in the other as a marriage bond. I don’t know of any ancient history that binds an individual like you mention other than slavery. But even in ancient times Slavery had covenant relations to time and paying a debt off, then released. Slavery was not sacred as a Covenant relation.

Generally speaking,
Religion starts wars, Christianity is racist.

Really? Yet the world found herself in two World Wars because Atheism tried to remove God from the civil world. Who starts Wars? Men who reject the morals established for man by God. When Atheism invents its own god’s in "communism, or a self proclaimed “supreme race” over all others.

Religion never start Wars, men who reject the one True God, start Wars, and after rejecting the One True God, Atheism invents its own god’s from creation or makes itself a false god for one to believe in.

, Atheist reasoning and psychology trumps any of that knowledge passed down for 5000 years of from the Abraham faiths.

Yet all the greatest minds in the world, that ever invented, painted, sculpted, developed the many sciences and philosophy were all Catholic or God fearing men, not Atheists.

Atheist have authority on using reason and logic to make moral boundaries for what is acceptable and not acceptable in society

.

Name one reasonable, logical moral boundary from Atheism that supersedes the Moral laws of God? What is acceptable and not acceptable is dictated by free society holding to Christian morals, or dictated by ruling dictators by force, never by free Atheism.

If Atheism ruled the Earth, there would be only chaos and destruction, because Atheism does not have any morals. Atheism is a “belief” of the present, to reason and decide with what is presented to them in present circumstances, deciding ones fate without any morality and dignity of life, lacking sacrifice and Love. Atheism decides its fate in the present without concern and dignity of the poor, elderly, sick, inprisoned, handicapped etc…

Atheism lacks the wisdom to shepherd any people, because Atheism will self destruct it’s own societies due to lack of morality and Love of God and Love of Neighbor does not exist in an Atheistic world.

No wars have ever been fought over science

.

That’s debatable, one thing is for sure science becomes the tool to kill and exterminate by genocide and Mass destruction.

Atheism only creed is to live and die (survive) according to the present circumstances without faith and morals. Becoming self reliant on self and nature from what can be seen. Walking blind on earth alone.


#6

No wars have ever been fought over science.

Not yet...but you can say science has attributed itself to mass destruction and killings (ex. Atomic Bomb).


#7

[quote="LetsTalk237, post:6, topic:276814"]
Not yet...but you can say science has attributed itself to mass destruction and killings (ex. Atomic Bomb).

[/quote]

Science has no moral stand on what to do with what is discovered. Individuals can use knowledge for good or bad.


#8

Be specific and use citations please. Most of us are very familliar with the same old dogged arguments that get trotted out like this.
Tell us who said what, what they said.


#9

Well, atheism isn’t necessarily religion. It’s the lack of belief in a deity. Some sects of Buddhism are atheist apparently. Many atheists claim to be spiritual. In atheism, in a way, religion blurs into philosophy.

For atheists, their own personal philosophies are beliefs that can sometimes take on a religious character. Sometimes these philosophies are political, sometimes not. So you get evangelical existentialists, evangelical socialists, evangelical capitalists, evangelical liberals, evangelical evolutionists, evangelical relativists etc. But the strength of conviction and the lengths seemingly irreligious people go to in pursuing their philosophies is particularly striking in politics. Christians get caught up in it too, to an extent.

So maybe atheism is like Protestantism without God: thousands of extremely diverse sects, each holding to their own interpretation of reality and bickering with others over which one is more correct.

And mainline atheism in this day is what we get fed in the media. That is bound to change over time, and what may seem unacceptable to atheists these days, like various forms of human experimentation or the eradication of undesirable elements, may once again become acceptable as was the case in the past, as mainline atheist philosophies sway to and fro in the winds of change and the spirit of the times.

Protestantism is to an extent anchored at least in the primacy of Scripture and all that that entails. Atheism is anchored only in the denial of the existence of a Creator.


#10

According to an etymology dictionary, the word “religion” has three possible origins. The first is from the Latin word “relegere”, meaning “to read again”, from “re-” and “legere” (“to read”). The second possible origin is from the Latin word “religare”, meaning “to bind fast”, which actually means to “place an obligation on” or “bond between humans and gods”; not to literally bust out a rope and tie up someone. The third possible origin is the Latin word “religiens”, meaning “careful”, the opposite of “negligens.” I think the history of various word origins is pretty neat, but with all that being said, modern words have their own, modern, definitions, regardless of whatever the definitions of their ancient ancestor-words were. One can’t really judge a modern English word by an ancient Latin definition.

Being as such, does this qualify the popularity of atheism as a new religion.

No. A religion concerns belief in god(s); atheism is the absence of religion, not a religion itself.

After all, atheist have their own prophets and gospel songs.
( not including the Anti-Christ denomination of atheism such as preacher Seth McFarland) we can look towards famous preachers as Jello Biafra, of the Dead Kennedys for his gospel writing and the hymn, " All religions make me vomit" such Atheist scripture is still read and sung today that was written over 20 years ago. Famous Atheist Evangelizes include Richard Dawkins of course, who could probably be considered the equivalent to the pope of Atheist. Not to drag this out, but there is also a creed that Atheist follow as well

Atheist groups might occasionally share some of the same behaviors as religious groups (writing songs, giving speeches, etc), but that doesn’t make it a religion. (Not to mention, I highly doubt that, say, Richard Dawkins himself would describe himself as a “preacher”, or if the Dead Kennedys would describe their music as “gospel”; those type of descriptions are usually applied to atheists by their opponents, and are not used by the atheists themselves.) Religion concerns belief in god(s), so atheism is not a religion.

Generally speaking, Religion starts wars,

A close look at politics will tell that very few wars have been started specifically and solely over religious causes. Most wars are started for political or monetary reasons, such as the big land-grab that was the Crusades; the politically-fomented reasons behind World War I, which also caused WWII in turn; the mix of national security, economic, and political reasons behind the Crimea, the 7-years war, the Indian Wars, the Spanish-American War, the Civil War; the national security interests behind Vietnam, Korea, Iraq. The various revolutions for independence that have occurred throughout history. I could give more examples, but almost every war that’s been fought has had political and monetary causes, not religious ones. “Religion starts wars” is just a bumper-sticker line for people who didn’t pay attention in history class; if we’re really going to solve humanity’s love affair with violence, we’re going to need sound reasoning and solid facts and research, not bumper stickers.

Christianity is racist.

Uh, what? I actually can’t tell if you’re a troll or not.

, Atheist reasoning and psychology trumps any of that knowledge passed down for 5000 years of from the Abraham faiths.

Yeah, it really does. The reasoning and psychology the Soviet Union used when they sent 24 million people to slave labor camps was waaay better than the crazy love-your-neighbor thing Jesus had going.

Atheist have authority on using reason and logic to make moral boundaries for what is acceptable and not acceptable in society.

Atheists are not philosophers. They are not criminal justice experts. They are not experts in ethics. It’s a common mistake to assume that because scientists (who are not all atheists) are good at logic or science, then they must be good at everything. (It’s also interesting to note that despite the assertion that atheists have a lock-down on using logic, there have actually been only a minority of atheist logicians. Why might that be?) Scientific knowledge, even a great deal of it, doesn’t make one qualified to determine things that are completely unrelated to science, such as criminal justice or business ethics. Another common mistake I see is the elevation of science onto a pedestal above all other disciplines; science is important, obviously, but not to the exclusion of every other field out there. A string theory researcher might sound fancier than an economist, but if the question at hand is whether to raise interest rates or not, which person will be more useful? If the question at hand concerns ethics or how people ought to act, then the person to ask would be an ethicist. If a scientist wants to weigh in on an ethics question, then they need to have a good grounding in the subject in their own right. Otherwise, it’s like asking a particle physicist about the economy.

No wars have ever been fought over science.

No, rather, science is the tool with which wars are fought.


#11

[quote="StrawberryJam, post:8, topic:276814"]
Be specific and use citations please. Most of us are very familliar with the same old dogged arguments that get trotted out like this.
Tell us who said what, what they said.

[/quote]

"...In the most noble part of the soul, the domain of our spiritual powers, we are constituted in the form of a living and eternal mirror of God; we bear in it the imprint of His eternal image, and no other image can ever enter there...The image of God is found essentially and personally in all mankind. Each possesses it whole, entire and undivided, and all together not more than one alone. In this way we are all one, intimately united in our eternal image, which is the image of God and the source in us of all our life. Our created essence and our life are attached to it without mediation as to their eternal cause...The immesurable abyss of Divinity is a holy darkness which contains, enfolds and transcends every attribute in the all-embracing circle of essential Unity, and the mystery of possession is consummated in these hidden depths...It is the end of transcending, the merging of the sublime in the nameless Eternal...a Unity of Essence, ocean of sure unending peace...When love has carried us above and beyond all things, above the light, into the Divine Dark, there we are wrought and transformed by the Eternal Word Who is the image of the Father; and as the air is penetrated by the sun, thus we receive in idleness of spirit the Incomprehensible Light, enfolding us and penetrating us. And this flight is nothing else but an infinite gazing and seeing. We behold that which we are, and we are that which be behold; because our thought, life and being are uplifted in simplicity and made one with the Truth which is God..."

  • Blessed John Ruysbroeck (1294-1381)

"...God expects but one thing of you, and that is that you should come out of yourself in so far as you are a created being and let God be in you...What are you afraid of? Give yourself up to God and He will give up to you . . . and there will remain between you an indivisible union. From this union . . . the Holy Spirit blooms...[God] is a great underground river that no one can dam up and no one can stop...It is the nature of the Holy Spirit that I should be consumed in Him, dissolved in Him, and transformed wholly into His love...God is at home, we're the ones who have gone out for a walk...One who truly has God will have Him in all places, in the streets and in the world, no less than in the church...People should not worry as much about what they do as about what they are . . . holiness is not based on what we do but rather on what we are, for it is not our works which sanctify us . . . God never tied your salvation to any pattern of life, therefore you must be permeated with the divine Presence, informed with the form of the Beloved God who is within so that you may radiate His presence without ever having to work at it,,,"

  • Meister Eckhart

Johannes Tauler, Eckhart's chief disciple and himself a famous and accomplished Catholic mystic described the mystical experience as being "sunk and lost in the Abyss of the Deity where you lose your consciousness of all creature distinctions. All things are gathered together in one with the divine sweetness, and your being is so penetrated with the divine substance that you lose yourself in it, as a drop of water is lost in a cask of strong wine."

Your friend,
Sufjon


#12

[quote="StrawberryJam, post:8, topic:276814"]
Be specific and use citations please. Most of us are very familliar with the same old dogged arguments that get trotted out like this.
Tell us who said what, what they said.

[/quote]

"...It is no small pity,
And should cause us no little shame,
that through our own fault,
We do not understand ourselves,
Or know wgo we are,
We only know we are living in these bodies,
And have a vague idea,
That we possess souls.
All our interest is centred on the rough
setting of the diamong, the outer wall of the castle ...]
Her heart is full of joy with love,
For in the Lord her mind is stilled.
She has renounced every selfish attachment
And draws abiding joy and strength
From the One within.
She lives not for herself, but lives
To serve the Lord of Love in all,
And swims across the sea of life
Breasting its rough waves joyfully ...]
Christ has no body now on earth but yours,
no hands but yours,
no feet but yours,
Yours are the eyes through which is to look out
Christ's compassion to the world;
Yours are the feet with which he is to go about doing good;
Yours are the hands with which he is to bless men now..."

  • Teresa of Avila

Your friend,
Sufjon


#13

[quote="StrawberryJam, post:8, topic:276814"]
Be specific and use citations please. Most of us are very familliar with the same old dogged arguments that get trotted out like this.
Tell us who said what, what they said.

[/quote]

"...The day of my spiritual awakening was the day I saw and knew I saw all things in God and God in all things. You should love nothingness. You should flee somethingness. You should stand alone. And should go to no one. Seeking help from none...and be free from all things...And yet should have nothing yourself...Then you are living in the true desert...beyond all human sensations. There I want to remain, yet want also to circle higher still. Wouldst thou know my meaning? In the desert, Turn toward emptiness, Fleeing the self. Stand alone, Ask no one’s help, And your being will quiet, Free from the bondage of things. Those who cling to the world, Endeavor to free them; Those who are free, praise. Lie down in the Fire, See and taste the Flowing Godhead through thy being; Feel the Holy Spirit Moving and compelling Thee within the Flowing Fire and Light of God. A fish cannot drown in water, A bird does not fall in air. In the fire of creation, God doesn't vanish: The fire brightens. Each creature God made must live in its own true nature; How could I resist my nature, That lives for oneness with God?...At once God revealed himself to my joyless soul, held this book in his right hand, and said: "My dear one, do not be overly troubled. One finds many a professor learned in scripture who actually is a fool in my eyes. And I'll tell you something else: It is a great honor for me with regard to them, and it very much strengthens Holy Christianity That the unlearned tongue, aided by my Holy Spirit, teaches the learned tongue"...I myself am uneducated...Lord, you are my lover, My longing, My flowing stream, My sun, And I am your reflection. And God said to the soul: "I desired you before the world began. I desire you now, As you desire me. And where the desires of two come together There love is perfected. It is my nature that makes me love you often, For I am love itself. It is my longing that makes me love you intensely, For I yearn to be loved from the heart. It is my eternity that makes me love you long, For I have no end "...The vision was not of the flesh; it was so spiritual that only the soul saw it, understood it, and enjoyed it. The body had nothing from it except what it could grasp in its human senses through the nobility of the soul. And this is why the words had to be expressed in human terms...When shall you soar with the feathers of your yearning to the blissful heights?...Effortlessly, Love flows from God into man, Like a bird Who rivers the air Without moving her wings. Thus we move in His world One in body and soul, Though outwardly separate in form..."

  • Saint Mechthild of Madgeburg.

Your friend,
Sufjon


#14

[quote="StrawberryJam, post:8, topic:276814"]
Be specific and use citations please. Most of us are very familliar with the same old dogged arguments that get trotted out like this.
Tell us who said what, what they said.

[/quote]

"Why this great war between the countries — the countries –
inside of us? What are all these insane borders we protect?
What are all these different names for the same Church of Love
we kneel in together? For it is true, together we live; and only
at that shrine where all are welcome will God sing
loud enough to be heard."

There is one religion, one common experience of the same single, Supreme Divininity - One Church of Love. It is we human beings who set up the mental barriers, dividing human beings into "friends" and "enemies", "believers" and "non-believers" etc. Experience of the divine takes many forms and is expressed diversely through different languages and cultural/religious traditions but this diversity should not distract from the inherent oneness, for in God "absolute unity is absolute multiplicity" as Cusanus once said.

St Teresa of Avila (1515 –1582)

Your friend,
Sufjon


#15

[quote="StrawberryJam, post:8, topic:276814"]
Be specific and use citations please. Most of us are very familliar with the same old dogged arguments that get trotted out like this.
Tell us who said what, what they said.

[/quote]

“...The absolute, Divine Mind, is all that is in everything that is... Divinity is the enfolding and unfolding of everything that is. Divintiy is in all things in such a way that all things are in divinity... There is only one mirror without flaw: the Divine, in whom what is revealed is received as it is. For this mirror is not essentially different from any existing thing. Rather in every existing thing it is that which is: it is the universal form of being...The human mind is the all of its dreams... Mind itself supposing itself to encompass, survey and comprehend all things thus concludes that it is in everything and everything is in it... whatever is found in creatures is found in the Divine...We are, as it were, a human deity. Humans are also the universe, but not absolutely since we are human. Humanity is therefore a microcosm, or in truth, a human universe. Thus humanity itself encloses both God and the universe in its human power... Humanity will find that it is not a diversity of creeds, but the very same creed which is everwhere proposed... There cannot but be one wisdom....Humans must therefore all agree that there is but one most simple wisdom whose power is infinite; and everyone, in explaining the intensity of this beauty, must discover that it is a supreme and terrible beauty...”

  • Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa (1401-1464)

Your friend
Sufjon


#16

[quote="StrawberryJam, post:8, topic:276814"]
Be specific and use citations please. Most of us are very familliar with the same old dogged arguments that get trotted out like this.
Tell us who said what, what they said.

[/quote]

I can provide lots more if you like,

Your friend
Sufjon


#17

[quote="StrawberryJam, post:7, topic:276814"]
Science has no moral stand on what to do with what is discovered. Individuals can use knowledge for good or bad.

[/quote]

Many say that science should have never "went there" in the first place. :thumbsup:


#18

Can you show one scientific proof that God does not exists?...(Thesis or arguments by atheists scientists are not required, I require scientifically proved fact)..


#19

[quote="Jessup, post:1, topic:276814"]

Being as such, does this qualify the popularity of atheism as a new religion

[/quote]

Atheism is not a religion. In some religions, you can be an atheist, in others, it is impossible. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. Atheism does not have scripture like you say, nor do atheists have any sort of creed. Atheism is loose, there is no order like the Catholic Church has.


#20

[quote="jerry_joseph, post:18, topic:276814"]
Can you show one scientific proof that God does not exists?...(Thesis or arguments by atheists scientists are not required, I require scientifically proved fact)..

[/quote]

That does not make sense. If you are claiming something does exist, you have the burden of proof, not the opposite way around.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.