The NOR going traditionalist?

Interesting comment from the very controversial New Oxford Review. From the May 2007 issue. From the editorial of all things:

“as the NOR veers from conservative Catholicsm to traditional Catholicsm”. It goes on. Check out their website as I beleive the full editorial should be up there soon.

Good or bad?

Well, the NOR is hardly conservative by typical standards, They has strongly questioned the war in Iraq and many of the anti-terrorism actions of Bush. In that they are much more in line with

They are more communitarian than capitalist and have hammered the neo-cons and Bush and Cheney for years now.

So they will not go lightly if they become completey traditioanlist.

To whit too many, IMO, traditionaliosts are 100% Republican, pro-Bush and pro-war. If the NOR flips, despite your initial glee, I suspect they will be every bit as controversial among the traditionalist community as they are among the conservative community - their ads have been banned from everything from Crisis to CWR to virtually every conservative Catholic publication.

The NOR was absolutely right on the Iraq war - perhaps the worst strategic decision ever in American history. That is easy to see now but will you all feel comfortable when the NOR calls on you to be radical catholics - not just opposed to abortion but to the deatrh penalty too.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

I’ve been a subscriber to New Oxford Review, the Remnant, and Latin Mass for quite a few years. I’ll agree with you that NOR has become more pro-TLM, but has always been quite orthodox in its articles of faith.

As far as 100% anything, I’ll disagree with you on that one. Pro-war seems to be coming less and less widespread everywhere but it never has been a thing with either NOR or the Remnant.

As far as political parties, anti-abortion seems to be the real vote getter here. So it’s not a surprise that trads or conservatives would vote for more Republicans than Democrats. But they also will turn to a lot of independents as well.

My personal favorites are Pat Buchanan (a TLM person :slight_smile: )and Congressman Ron Paul. And I stay away from alleged or self-proclaimed FreeMasons of any party.

NOR has never been for the Iraq war - their “tirades” against Bush and Cheney have gotten them into trouble for years now. Banned from advertising in most orthodox conservative Catholic magazines.

Ironically, IMO, they have been right about Bush and Cheney and the rest.

But they hold to anti-death postions in being against the death penatly which many pro-life Catholics and Christians - probably most - are not.

They are radical in that you can’t predict their position - a good thing IMO - as in their opposition to the death penalty abd being just “lukewarm” on the greatness of capitalism…

I guess Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI are much more in line with as well since both voiced their opposition to Bush’s Iraq war.

NOR is more in line with Pat Buchanan than with neo-cons like Fr. Neuhaus, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill Kristol, and others who think imperialism is a conservative principle.

I’m not against the war. I have always been against Bush conducting it as he is way past his competence in that respect. So, a war run by an incompetent warrior has always been a disaster. So I would see it as against any war including Iraqi run by Bush. There’s a better chance for a quarter horse in the K-Derby.

But he did get the Partial Birth Abortion anathema into Law. That’s worth about ,1000 citizens/yr if it is enforced.

Please don’t compared Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI with Their opposition to the war is based on solid, moral ground; Move-on’s position is politically motivated at best.

I wouldn’t say that is more in line with, since the NOR and many traditionalist dissenting opinion is based on the application of the just war theory -’s is based on simple partisan politics. If a Dem was in the White House conducting the same war, the folks at Move-On would be the biggest cheerleaders.

You’re wrong to assume NOR is anything resembling “communitarian” (which I’m guessing you mean sympathetic to Communism or Socialism) - they will be even more opposed to atheistic Communism and socialism than the current Western form of secularized (anti-Christian) capitalist democracies (which all-to-often are borderline socialist anyway) that put money in place of God and almost force religious indifference by rule of law.

If NOR is going the way of common traditional beliefs, they would most likely be of the mind that the best form of government is the confessionaly Catholic state - one that officially recognized Christ and His Church.

Well, I’ve never heard traditionalists put opposition to the death penalty in the same category as opposition to abortion (i.e. non-negotiable), so I think you may be off the mark here a bit.

Peace in Christ,


Limbaugh is a neo-con?

He isn’t even Catholic.

Bush? He isn’t a “neo-con”. He really isn’t conservative on much at all. He isn’t Catholic either.

Buchanan is a raving lunatic.

I’m pro-War on Terror.
I’m ambivalent on the Iraq War
I’m firmly pro-life
I’m torn about the death penalty
I think the Democratic Party has allied itself with the radicals when it comes to social issues
I think the Republican Party needs to grow a spine
I think George Bush is a good and decent man, but a poor communicator
I think Pat Buchanan is too anti-Semitic for me
I guess I’m all over the place - and right now I can’t see anyone who is running that I can support. (Go Fred!!)

Well, you’d never hear a sane traditionalist try to lump the two together because Tradition won’t allow it. It’s obvious that the Church teaches abortion is never allowable, capital punishment sometimes so. Putting the two on the same level is impossible.

Several issues were raised by the OP, but please just stick to the NOR going traditional issue and leave the politics to other fora on the board. Thank you, everyone.

To bring back my original point, the NOR became controversial among conservative Catholic circles over time because it could not be pigeon-holed.

They are orthodox but have real problems with prominent orthodox Catholics from Hahn to Fessio to Fr. Pavone. They have carried pieces about Randy England’s stuff which can be out there.

The NOR did not find an easy home in the conservative catholic milieu and I suspect they will not among traditionalists too - if indeed they go traditionalist.

Frankly I suspect the NOR is ultimately on the way out of the Catholic Church as they were once on the way out of the Anglican church.

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