The old testament


#1

The old testament is all of the prophets, right? They say that the old testament is fulfilled by the new, right? Jesus also said I have not come to destroy the law and the prophets but to fulfill. My question is, if the old testament is the testimony of the prophets then how could the old testament be fulfilled if not all the prophets are included in the accepted versions of the old testament?
Jesus did not say, I will fulfill some and leave others out. Are not these prophets, the ones who have been destroyed by the church? They are not inclusive to scriptural teaching, right? How could the old be fulfilled by the new then?


#2

do you have some specific example of “Prophets left out of the OT” your post is extremely unclear and impossible to answer as is.


#3

Take the apocrypha for example. It used to be included in scripture but has been snipped out by the church. How could any of the apocrypha be fulfilled, when the bible is the authority of the law and prophets, after it was discontinued in the inclusion of the bible?


#4

If you are referring to the seven Deuterocanonical books that were removed by the Protestants from their bibles in the 17th century, they are still included in the Catholic bible. What we call “apocrypha” was never included in any bible.

God love you,
Paul


#5

Yes, the apocrypha was origninally included in the King James Bible. And no they are not used by Catholicism any more. If they were, then they would be read from in church; which they are not. Yes, I know they are included in Catholic bibles. So how does not reading from them fulfill the law and the prophets. No, I never heard any catholic church read from them.


#6

What about the gnostic texts? Whose use of allegories trumps anything written in accepted scripture? I know that these men came after the prophets; but in scripture the use of allegories as a source of truth is evident even in Genesis; for Genesis is an allegory.


#7

What about the dead sea scrolls? These have been accepted as authentic scripture, however, they are not included within scripture. Yes, I know they are fragmented, however, do you ever consider that they are still prophetic in that which can be read? Don’t you still think that they have scriptural value? That even though they are fragmented that what remains should still be incorporated into church teaching?


#8

Really? I can clearly recall being a very confused protestant attending Mass with my husband and wondering what in the world the book of Sirach was.


#9

Which ones?

How does it ‘trump’ accepted Scripture? This is a term I’m not used to seeing in Biblical exegesis

How do you know this?


#10

That’s just completely false. Do you really expect people to believe you?


#11

No it’s not correct, the Deuterocanonicals ARE read from at Mass. The OP is just arguing about more stuff he knows nothing about… again.


#12

Godhead burst onto this thread a short time ago and has rapid-fire sent post after post of appeals to incredulity about all manner of Christian belief. I’ve seen his responses most often provide evidence that he’s not read what’s been said back to him.


#13

Yeah, probably. :wink:

I wish he would just tell everyone what’s with the huge chip on his shoulder already.


#14

btw, for those who want proof anyway just go look at the First Reading used for next Friday. Duuuhr!! :rolleyes:

usccb.org/nab/032307.shtml


#15

Through allegorical meanings it leads you into higher truth–reasoning higher ascended bodies that can be attained by anyone through the exercisement of spirit. Church dogma circumcises spirit, saying that this is best, leaving man to mortal thought. Gnosticism on the other hand leads man into transcendent reasoning, saying that not only does the soul have to be nourished but the spirit also, in attainment of immortality rather than mortality.

The gospel of Thomas for example has been declared heretical by the church, when any one with two good eyes can clearly see the tie between it’s contents and the first couple of books of scripture; where some of the contents can be found plainly within the bibles text. Within it, however, is higher transcendent truth than can be realized other than common scripture. Jesus said, I am the truth. If Jesus is to be the truth then the ENTIRE truth must be incoroporated or expounded using his philosophy of life.


#16

Wrong. look it up. The apocrypha was too included in the original translation of the king james bible in 1611
Never heard any of the apocrypha read aloud at mass. Not in my entire life.


#17

Wrong. At least I’m smart enough to know that the story of creation was an allegory, unlike fools who know nothing of scriptural history–saying that Adam and Eve were real people, when anyone who knows anything knows that the original Hebrew words were man and woman. GO AHEAD I DARE YOU TO CHALLENGE ME AND TELL ME I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT WHAT I SPEAK OF. I DARE YOU. ONLY A FOOL BELIEVES THAT THERE WAS REALLY A TALKING SERPENT THAT TEMPTED ADAM AND EVE. ANYONE WHO KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT HISTORICAL SYMBOLISM WOULD KNOW THAT THE SERPENT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A SYMBOL OF WISDOM. ONLY A FOOL WOULD BELIEVE THAT THE EARTH WAS CREATED IN SEVEN DAYS. GO AHEAD TELL ME I DON’T KNOW WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT. THERE NEVER WAS REALLY ANY TREE IN THE MIDST OF ANY GARDEN AND THERE WAS NEVER REALLY ANY COMMAND TO NOT EAT FROM THE TREE. MAN CAME ACROSS THE SERPENT OR WISDOM AND THAT IS WHAT OPENED HIS EYES TO GOOD AND EVIL. BELIEVE THE LIE. O SERPENT REPRESENTS THE DEVIL? BELIEVE THE LIE. CALL ME A FOOL. WE WILL SEE WHO IS THE FOOL IN THE END, AS NIETZSCHE SAID, HE WHO LAUGHS LAST LAUGHS BEST.


#18

Thanks for the ‘just-so’. You’ve thoroughly convinced me. Where do I sign up?

Seriously how did you measure that this has ‘trumped’ the Bible?

Which Gospel of Thomas? There’s two known as Infancy Gospel “A”, and Infancy Gospel “B”, and another one, I believe - which might be the one you’re talking about.

You simply assume Thomas is accurate and base your whole attack on Christian tradition on the opinion that you are right.


#19

For one, beliefs are the bullets of the wicked. Believe the lie. Book of God it is a fable. The word of God berates real truth, saying I am the sum of all truth, never does actual truth come out and shine because God has condemned the truth; for instance, here is some truth that you are instantaneously blind to–you are the imagination of yourselves, you choose reality, you choose the dreams you want to live in. This truth you will never accept because it ultimately defeats the word of God. Instead, God has thrown real truth into a lake of fire and brimstone. Never shall higher truth be exposed. The Truth above does not know your Lord. It is the unidentified evolution of thought, the never ending advancement of reason.


#20

Maybe you should try a different dose?

What has the Gospel of Thomas got to do with the Old Testament anyway?


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