The Osmonds, Families for Their Church

I happened to catch Oprah’s show today as I was going to Fox News, and there was the entire Osmond Family. I believe I am correct that Mormons have many children in large part so that they can give more members to their Church. What ever happened to Catholics doing the same? Was it the threat of overpopulation? Or the sneers of neighbors? Or the jokes? Or the lack of money? All of the above?

It is so sad that Mormons can do it and Catholics now have their own form of birth control. Will we have to call the folks from the countries to the south to grow the Church in America? If the wealthy feel that it is their duty not to have large families, will we have to depend on the poor to give us our saints? Possibly what Jesus said about the poor inheriting the earth was said with our own Age in mind.

Are you referring to Natural Family Planning, here?

I agree that lots of people, of all types, in the U.S. aren’t open to large families; it is sad.

Yes. I know that NFP has many distinguishing characteristics, but it is still a mystery to me that, minus genuine emergency situations, Catholics do not leave the size of their families to God! It is rather hypocritical, isn’t it?

The reason Catholics as a whole aren’t open to large families is not that Catholicism allows NFP. It is because Catholics as a whole have become mainstream. Last I heard, about 95% of Catholics do not follow the Church’s teachings on sex and marriage (ie. using NFP vs. contraception). Of the 5% that do, I’d bet the average family size is much bigger. Most of the other 95% are not committed to their faith as much as they are committed to living a “culturally mainstream” lifestyle. This is not necessarily the fault of all of these Catholics - some of them have been so poorly educated that they don’t know that there is a difference between mainstream values and Catholic morality. So it is not the Catholic Church’s acceptance of NFP that is the problem. It is the fact that the vast majority of Catholic use artificial contraception and sterilization. I don’t know much about mormons, but I get the impression that they are still somewhat “set apart” at least relative to Catholics. If they have a better track record of opennes to life and passing on their faith to their children, it is because of that.

Very well said, Thy Kingdom Come! I guess that the term “mainstream” combines all of the reasons I set forth in my original post. Do you think that this may have been one more of the consequences of Vatican II? I know that the Popes and the Bishops were attempting to “mainstream” Catholics with the best of intentions, by the vernacular, etc., to keep discontented young Catholics and to gain converts and to spread the Faith more quickly in a modern world.

Were not Catholics better off being “set apart,” as you put it? Our large Catholic families were so wonderful – and they were not needed on the farm or in the family business. Catholics just loved their families and worked hard, very hard, to put them through Catholic school. (Now, of course, and also thanks to Vatican II, our schools are so much MORE expensive because we have no more nuns – or very few of them, anyway.) That resulted in Catholic young people getting to know other Catholic young people and thus marrying within the Faith. I don’t know how a mixed marriage can produce the type of Catholics we require, especially in these days!

It has a snowballing effect. We may be streamlined, but we have never been in such a sorry state!

All LDS couples do not have large families. It rather depends on whether they can afford the large family or not. Birth control is acceptable in LDS and so is abortion. Abortion is o.k. to save the mother, in the case of rape, etc. It is not taken lightly by most LDS, but non-the-less, not the “sin” that it is in the Catholic faith. NFP is a good thing for families who cannot afford large families. Have you noticed that more and more the medical world is finding out the dangers of birth control pills? NFP in marriage is the safest and most reliable form of birth control. I had five children. All are college educated and doing the best they can to raise smaller families, provide shelter, clothing, food, etc. and put funds away for college. Large families are wonderful, unfortunately not always “doable”.

The old adage “the Lord will provide” goes hand in hand with “the good Lord helps those who help themselves”.

Mom of 5

unfortunately, for many Christians (Catholics included), they have rejected the Sovereignty of God over their lives and go their own way.:frowning:

This matches the information I have come across, too. Those Catholics who practice NFP or no method at all, often have larger than average families. :slight_smile:

God helps those who help themselves, indeed; but is denying Christ and His Church more members – the primary reason for marriage – helping yourself? A college education and a second or third car and a house in the suburbs may give families a feeling of security and hope for a better future for their children; but my belief is that, except for extreme reasons of health, accepting the number of children God wants us to have with no strings attached and loving all of those children and giving them a clean, decent home where education in the matters of God and the Church come first would give that same family much more security and hope for the ultimate future! God will reward such a family even in this life and they will be able to overcome every obstacle sent their way.

Let me preface this by saying that I do not know any Mormons personally. I live in an area of the country that has very few practicing Mormons. I think though, the reason why they have such large families is that it is more culturally accepted among them to have large families.

Though some might use NFP as contreception that is not what the church intended it for. It is only ment to be used in GRAVE situations. The Catholic Church wants us to let God make the decisions in our life and marriage. People misuse all sorts of things but it isnt the fault of the church.

And society as a whole is not open to large families. However i do not find with the many mormons i know that they are all baby breeding factories. Most if not all use birth control since the LDS has no problem with its use. The Catholic Church is the ONLY faith that stands against birth control…

We have made the choice to have as many children as God will give us. We have made serious sacrifices to provide but God always comes through and we have been blessed abundantly because of that generosity. God will always provide what you need if you step out in faith first.

Just sharing our experiences

Raising my hand as one Catholic that is so Blessed and open to life. We know many families that are the same. I realize that so many people (Christians and Catholics) live in a society of relativism. They create their own truth. It’s the “I’m OK You’re OK” society. That allows people to use NFP as birth control instead of prayerfully discerning each month if it is time for a new life in their family. Grave reason is to be decided upon by the individual couple and can easily become clouded as to what is grave (health, serious financial issues, special needs children already in the family) or not so grave (we wanted to take a vacation, we wanted a new house). I know, from experience, that it’s easy to be caught in that clouded area. Once my husband and I decided to open our hearts fully to God’s plan and believe that however many children He blessed us with He would also provide then life became much easier.

Anyway - I agree that Catholics and all people would benefit from being open to new life, bigger families, adoption, etc. We’re selling ourselves short in our society and it’'s very sad.

Actually, they believe that there are spirit babies floating around in heaven waiting for bodies. Those babies are the offspring of Heavenly Mother and Heavenly Father-- the deities of this planet.

Their theology demands they give these spirit babies bodies so they can come down to earth. They also hope to be reunited with these children when they progress to Godhood over their own planet. This is being sealed for time and eternity.

Catholics do not believe what Mormons believe.

Catholics believe that God specially creates the soul at the time of conception. The Church calls each husband and wife to discern the size of their family through prayer and generous love for each other.

Each person has their own individual reasons for the choices they make. Societal shifts-- from rural and agricultural to urban and industrial-- had a major impact on family size, for one. Political policies, financial situations, medical conditions, education resultling in the average age of first marriage being over a decade later than it was 50 years ago… ALL of these contribute. Materialism and cultural norms do also influence people, I am sure.

Overall, I find the reasons you propose to be simplistic, negative, and snide. I think they are far off the mark, except possibly finances.

The Mormon religion does not teach birth control is wrong. Mormons can, and do, contracept. I think you will also find that the “large family” stereotype of Mormons is in rapid decline also. The Mormons I know have fewer than 3 kids each.

We all do our own individual part to build up the Kingdom. Small or large family, we are all loved by God.

While that is your opinion, it is not what the Church teaches, nor has it ever taught such.

I know for this Catholic :slight_smile: , I am in a mixed marriage, so while I believe in the Church teaching on human sexuality and wish to practice NFP, my DH isn’t completely on board. Our compromise right now is for me to not use ABC but I pray for his true conversion every day.
I would suspect I’m not the only Catholic in this unfortunate situation.

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