The Pillar and foundation of truth


#1

In the Holy Bible, we read, "If I (St. Paul) am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. 1 Timothy 3:15

How do our protestant friends respond to this bible passage.
These days we have in excess of 30,000 different Christian denominations all claiming to have the truth yet one church has the truth.


#2

It’s amazing how fast the subject can be changed!


#3

To me verse backs up Matthew 16:16-18; plus Matthew 18:15-18; and John 17 just to name a few. But It is surprising how St. Paul states that the Church is the Pillar of Truth, yt Protestants say no its the Bible.


#4

So your experience is that protestants will quickly change the subject


#5

It’s happened twice to me. Of course, I had set up the scenario of asking what was the “pillar and foundation”.


#6

Ok, I’ll take the other side of the discussion. Define the word ‘church’ as used in the verses above (actually, anytime it’s used in the NT).


#7

Protestants believe that each person can interpret the scriptures. This idea leads me to think that each one is his own Pope and church.


#8

The Church is the true Body of Christ.


#9

Yes, I agree! It’s the Body of Christ… not an institution.


#10

Umm it is an institution an it is the Catholic Church


#11

SJacob7 #9
Yes, I agree! It’s the Body of Christ… not an institution.

Since the Church is founded by Christ as “an organization founded and united for a specific purpose” it is THE institution to teach, rule and sanctify established by God the Son.


#12

:getholy:

Option A: by regarding that church as being the Ideal Church, not necessarily one instantiated in any particular church :getholy:;
Option B: by regarding that church as being the Whole Church, comprising all of the many and various denominations, Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, etc :signofcross::highprayer::byzsoc: :gopray2: ;
Option C; by loudly declaring that church to be my own particular church, repeatedly and emphatically asserting that it is the One True Church, pointing to its own teachings as “proof” of this, and not caring what anyone else says to the contrary :okpeople:.


#13

Contrary to the fancies imagined by Mystophilus in post #12, the Son of God expressly and very clearly built His Church in His own words:
All four promises to Peter alone:
“You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church.” (Mt 16:18)
“The gates of hell will not prevail against it.”(Mt 16:18)
“I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven." ( Mt 16:19)
“Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” (Mt 16:19) [Later to the Twelve]

**Sole authority: **
“Strengthen your brethren.” (Lk 22:32)
“Feed My sheep.”(Jn 21:17).

Already, Peter had exercised his supreme authority in the upper room before Pentecost to have Judas’ place filled. At the first Apostolic Council of Jerusalem Paul made sure that his ministry to the gentiles was recognised by, Peter (Gal 1:I8).

Christ gave no one else the authority that He gave to St Peter alone. Having built His Church on St Peter He promised the Holy Spirit’s guidance to “all truth”:
“I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you." (John 14:15-18) “The Advocate, the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in My name, He will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you.” (John 14:26) “But when He comes, the Spirit of truth, He will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. He will glorify Me, because He will take from what is mine and declare it to you. Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that He will take from what is mine and declare it to you.” (John 16:13-15).

The words of Christ need to be heeded by all who would be Christians.


#14

So true, but then it won’t be all wine and roses for His Church:

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


#15

i’m sure it made them think


#16

so these are the general standard replies I take it.


#17

One respond I have received is…so long as it upholds the truth taught by the Apostles, or something similar…so long as it upholds the gospel.

So I asked…what is the true gospel? How does one get to know the one truth? And how can you be sure your pastor is telling or teaching the true gospel?

After letting them think…I then cite the example of St. Paul:

Galatians 2:2 I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain.

So my follow up is…how does your pastor follow this Biblical example/guide, exemplified by St. Paul?


#18

My pastor, like all that I know of, is monitored by the teaching authority of the Church, our local Bishop. :wink:


#19

They are fairly typical.


#20

good question, and their reply…


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