The poor Church of England is falling apart

Whilst I am a die-hard and devout Roman Catholic, I am also a Briton and proud of it. And ever since childhood, for some reason, I have greatly fancied the Church of England. I still to this day attend Evensong whenever I can at Anglican/Episcopal Churches because I think they are absolutely beautiful.

As I’m sure many of you have heard, a couple of days ago the Church of England has decided to ordain women as bishops. As you know, in the mid 90’s they decided to ordain women to the priesthood and that scarred the Church of England immensely(in fact, it’s still scarring them to this day). At a time when the Anglican Communion is falling apart, now the Church has to go on and ordain women as bishops? Quare?

Anyway, my main concern as a British Roman Catholic, and as someone who is keen on the Church of England, is hopes of reuniting our two Churches. It has for some time now been in the interests of Rome to become into full communion with Canterbury as it once was before the English Reformation. But the step the Church of England has decided to take is one step farther away for ecumenism. Pope Benedict XVI even expressed his sadness on the Church of England’s decision.

Your thoughts?

Pray, It appears now that the only way for the Anglican church to come back is for the people to do so on their own, the “church” has made it near impossible:( . For as Pope Benedict has stated we could not ordain Women if we wanted to as it is against the biblical teachings. Or words to that effect.

All Catholics of Britian, please be careful of any new Henry the 8th.

Reunion would never happen now.

The only way reunion can happen is if the Church of England renounce their decisions concerning the role of women in the church.

Aswell as going back on their decisions regarding women priests and “bishops,” the Church of England would have to renounce their stance on artificial contraception.

The Act of Settlement 1701 would also have to be abolished since the Queen and her descendents would now become Catholic. As the law stands, no Catholic is allowed to sit on the throne of England.

Also, the Church of England would have to change it’s doctrine. They would have to accept Transubstantiation and all of the other dogmas they refute would have to be accepted.

Based on all of the above, union would never happen. The only thing that could happen is that large portions of the Church of England would convert to Catholicism. As for a total reunion, this would never happen. The Anglican Communion will always exists, although it will be far smaller in years to come.

I think there are too many obstacles for the CofE to be reunited with Rome now.

I had always thought/hoped that it would be a matter of time before the Archbishop of Cantebury and the Queen made moves to reunite the CofE with Rome but I was being naive.

Individual Anglicans and maybe even small groups will no doubt decide to swim the Tiber (like I did). However, the whole Anglican communion in England reuniting appears to be almost impossible!

I don’t want the Church of England to reunite with Rome unless they fully accept the teachings and dogma of the Church.

I’ve always viewed the Church of England as counterfeit Catholicism. They pick and choose what they want to believe, while doing their best to claim that they believe in the Apostolic faith. Nothing could be further from the truth.

More than any other Church, they change their doctrines to suit the times. They allow society to dictate to them. They worship the God of political correctness.

I see something along these lines occuring. First, there will be a large split between the traditionalists and the more untraditional ones, for lack of better terms. Somehow, and I am not sure why, the nontraditional folks will be the ones in positons of power, in other words, they will be the “Church of England” while the larger, more reverant traditional folks will be outcasts for holding true to the teachings of old. They will gravitate towards the Church, if for no other reason than to anger the goofballs that are in the other side. Then, as a group, they will be reunified, possibly as their own rite in union with Rome so they can keep their current traditional services and prayers.

Putting on the Karnak routine here…

I think possibly one or two new dioceses will be erected by the Pope in England, overlapping the Latin dioceses. They will be very large in geographical area (for England) but thin in following.

They might be included with TAC into a Sui Iuris church. If that is the case most of the Anglican Use parishes in the USA (seven? ) will be detached from their dioceses and collected into the new structure.

They will need a Metropolitan, and a decent sized parish church building to name as cathedral for it, probably in England.

If such a Sui Iuris structure were to be created, it could not function under the CCEO, Rome would need to write an addendum to the Latin Code.

If they go through all of this and the Anglicans by and large don’t come along (being mostly Evangelicals), it could be an embarrassing setback for the church. But my guess is that Latin Catholics would flock to it, if only as a matter of curiosity, some staying for the long haul. So even as a “copy” Anglican church it could be economically viable.

I certainly hope and pray that if there is a schism, the traditionalists will reunite with Rome.

Lord God, bring about reunion between Anglican traditionalists and Rome, in accordance with your holy, sovereign will. Amen.

They will need a Metropolitan, and a decent sized parish church building to name as cathedral for it, probably in England.

This should not be done. The returning Anglicans should join the Roman rite of the Church. They should not have their own diosese and Cathedral.

However, the Anglican service could enrich the the Mass of Paul VI. I have heard that it is very beautiful; although this would not justify the creation of an Anglican use right within the Roman rite.

It was inevitable. A changeable church that had changeable doctrine from the start ran into a rapidly changing culture. It could only adapt. But the culture itself is falling apart. Whatever conforms to a disintegrating world disintegrates. People are flooding out and many will become Catholic. The few who stay in C of E will become a more and more obscure group, and finally be all but forgotten. When the changes go past a certain point in a group, the trust is gone and even if it went back to older standards the traditional people would never feel sure it would stay that way.

Very profound points.

My take.

standfirminfaith.com/inde…article/14071/
I like post #2 and # 6. Hope this happens!. Rome choosing the next Archbishop of Canterbury and the deed to Christ Church given back to Rome’s care. Just hoping and praying, and especially for Catholics and those (Anglo-Catholics) seeking union with Rome in England.:slight_smile:

The biggest problem with the Church of England is that they could not let tradition stand. They had to go ahead and change things, to suite modern day thinking. There are just some things that need to remain un-touched and this women ordination thing is one such thing. Both the Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox Churches feel the same.

I don’t see why they shouldn’t be given their own metropolitan, diocese and diocesan Cathedral. Why do so many Latins want them to be grafted into the Latin Church? They have had their own rituals and traditions for so many centuries, even before Henry VIII had cut himself off. While the Latin Church has it’s own beauty, being Catholic does not mean being Latin is the only acceptable thing.

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew

Yes, you’re right; the Anglican liturgies are very beautiful. Not to mention their music: absolutely HEAVENLY. In the midst of all the **** the CofE believes, and even that of the entire Anglican Communion, they got it right with the singing. :thumbsup:

And in regards to what someone said above about the CofE not believing in transubstantiation, that is not true. While the Episcopal Church in America is wishy-washy about it, the Church of England has made it clear several times that they do believe in the “real presence”. However, their view on Christ in the Mass is different. We, as Catholics, believe it as a sacrifice; hence “Holy Sacrifice of the Mass”.

But the supporters of the English Reformation made it very clear from the start that the Mass or Eucharist is not a sacrifice; hence why the never refer to the altar as “the altar”; rather the “holy table”(i.e. in the book of common prayer). But they do believe that Christ manifests himself body, soul, and divinity under the species of bread and wine.

And in regards to what someone said above about the CofE not believing in transubstantiation, that is not true. While the Episcopal Church in America is wishy-washy about it, the Church of England has made it clear several times that they do believe in the “real presence”. However, their view on Christ in the Mass is different. We, as Catholics, believe it as a sacrifice; hence “Holy Sacrifice of the Mass”.

They don’t believe in Transubstantiation. They believe in Consubstantiation. It’s a different theological understanding. While they may believe in the Real Presence, they don’t have a valid Eucharist.

Too much slicing and dicing here for my taste.

The CoE may be falling apart, but my parish in the Anglican Diocese of Uganda is growing by leaps and bounds. There are more Anglicans worshipping on a Sunday morning in Uganda than in the entire U.K.

Aren’t the African communities in Uganda part of the Anglican Church of Kenya? That is a much more conservative group that rejects all those CofE innovations. That would explain why they are growing. No one is breaking down the doors to get into churches that are caving in to immorality and false doctrine. Heck, we get plenty of that outside of church.

God bless you,
Paul

As much as I’d love to see this happen, I’m a bit pessimistic it would. We have an Anglican Use parish here in Houston that is lovely, not only in looks, but liturgy and singing. And the incense, ect. Still, I guess we can all hope. :slight_smile:

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