The Pope is NOT God!


#1

Who knows, I’ll probably be hung for this, but here goes…

Why is it that I keep hearing some of my catholic friends worship the pope, and put him on such a high pedestal? Calling him “Christ on earth”, and saying that he is infallible, invincible, etc. This is idolatry at its worst.

The Bible says of Jesus that there is no other name by which men can be saved (Acts 4:12). There is only one mediator between God and men, and that is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5). There is no Biblical foundation for claiming to be a representative of Christ on earth. No man could do what Christ has done, or what Christ is now doing on behalf of humankind. But the title of vicar also carries with it another implication: that the bearer has the same jurisdictional power of the official he represents. In Matthew 16:18, Jesus Christ is the one who says He will build His church, He never delegates this power. By claiming the title of Vicar of Christ, the reigning pope is, in fact, promising to do what Christ promised.

Jesus does indeed predict a “vicar” in the sense of a “replacement” for His physical presence here on earth. However, this “vicar of Christ” is not a priest, high priest, bishop, or pope. The only Biblical “vicar of Christ” is the Holy Spirit. John 14:26 says, “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” John 14:16-18::, “And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever — the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.” The Holy Spirit is Christ’s “replacement” on the earth. The Holy Spirit is our Counselor, Teacher (John 14:26), and guide into all truth (John 16:13).

In claiming that the pope is the “vicar of Christ,” the Catholic church rejects the sufficiency and supremacy of Christ’s priesthood, and grants to the pope roles that Christ Himself declared would belong to the Holy Spirit. It is therefore blasphemy to ascribe to the Pope the title of “vicar of Christ.”

And for the record…I am not some kind of troll that just wants drama, but I really want us all to THINK about things…we have to use our brains, and use critical thinking ,and be skeptical, and analyze things for ourselves…we do not just have to blindly obey anyone or accept what they say as absolute truth.

I am not “Catholic”, but I am a Christian…there are many things that I absolutely adore about the Catholic faith…and I would actually like to join the church…but this whole Pope issue is what really irks me. He is NOT GOD!


#2

Catholics don’t think that the Pope is inherently infallible. The Pope could make super bowl predictions, but that doesn’'t mean he’s always going to be right. The Pope is only infallible when teaching on matters of faith and morals, and the necessary conditions have only been met a few times, and he is only infallible in these circumstances through the influence of the Holy Spirit.

If the Vicar of Christ is the Holy Spirit, why does Christ give Peter the keys to the Kingdom, and what happens to, “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church”?


#3

aaawww…forget it!


#4

haha djgang, why’d you say forget it? :stuck_out_tongue:

And to Tim, just because Peter is (supposedly) “the rock”, does not mean that he is Christ on earth, nor does it mean that the Pope is Christ on earth! And I believe it was the current pope himself that called himself christ on earth?!! That just sounds nutty to me.


#5

because I think you are being a troll…you’ve let a few Catholic friends determine (to you) that Catholics think the Pope is God…that’s just looking for drama when you know quite well, if you educate yourself on the Catholic Faith, that is NOT what the belief is… :stuck_out_tongue:


#6

where have you been getting your information on catholicism from, a jack chick tract? go to the catholic answers library or read schenk’s “catholic and christian” before you post any more questions because your ideas about the basic tenets of catholicism are wildly off the mark.


#7

That is nutty, and I’d like to know where you got that idea.


#8

Know what I think? I think that you don’t really have any Catholic friends who worship the pope and think that he is invincible. I think you just made that up. Isn’t there a commandment against that kind of thing?


#9

How about before stating such trash, let alone believing in it, you show us some concrete evidence to back up your statements. It is unworthy of you as a thinking being to believe anything without evidence, so if you are indeed a thinking being it should be easy for you to give us the incontrovertible proof that convinced you.

You give us the exact quote and show us exactly where and when Pope Benedict has literally called himself Christ on Earth. Rather than Vicar (agent or representative) of Christ, or some such expression, which I am positive is all he WOULD permit himself to say.


#10

Actually, Christ doesn’t refer tro the Holy Spirit as a Vicar, but as a paraclete, or advocate. I just noticed you’d said that as well:o


#11

I’ve been Catholic for fifty years. I’ve never heard any Pope call himself Christ on earth. If any of you don’t believe that Jesus put Peter in charge of His earthly church and that through succession that responsibility,(notice I said responsibility not power) tranfers to the current Pope, that’s your right, But I believe because without it your get 33,000 Protestant denominations and millions of interpretations of the Bible.


#12

If you take this issue seriously, you’ll remove your emotions and look objectively at why the Pope is called the “Vicar of Christ”.

This title does have a scriptural foundation, and this is it:

***"*He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep." (John 21:17)

It is in this passage that Peter is made the Vicar of Christ, not in the sense that he replaces the Holy Spirit, but in the sense that he is charged with the superintendency of Christ’s sheep. Peter is instructed to do this because Christ will soon depart the earth. Therefore, Peter is appointed “in the place of Christ” as his representative or “vicar”.

As the head of the visible church, the successor of Peter is infallible on matters of faith and morals when speaking ex cathedra. He “feeds the sheep” by guiding them clearly in these matters, while Christ is no longer able to do it in His own person.

The idea that Catholics worship the Pope or ascribe divinity to him is completely ludicrous.


#13

Prove it.


#14

No. He never said that. I don;t know what kind of Anti-Catholic propaganda you are reading but your assumptions about the Pope is not true.

The Catholic Church does not say that the Pope is God, nor any Pope have self-claim themselves to be God. The only I know who has have been Roman Emperors which was ruled by the pagans.


#15

It seems like you have blinders on with the above statements. I have never heard anyone say they worship the pope or give such a blanket statement that the pope is infallible or invincible. I would bet that NOONE has told you that they think the pope is God.


#16

You write as someone who knows their scripture. Whether you are a troll and live under a bridge is of no particular concern to me one way or the other. Someone, first of all, has fed you a bunch of the by product produced by a bull eating hay. Second with your knowledge of scripture you should be able to find out the significance of someone being given the “keys of the kingdom” in the O.T. Jesus gives the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to Peter in about the same place in Scripture where he renames him Petras.

Assuming the passing on of the keys from one Pope to the next has a significance, it doesn’t take a mind like a “Rocket Scientist” to figure out what that means. That’s enough said. Have a ball! :slight_smile: :slight_smile:


#17

A few people tell you something and instead of investigating it yourself, you try to raise a ruckus on a Catholic message board? You are on the internet and even the Cathechism of the Catholic Church is on the internet, along with the offficial Vatican web site.

May I politely suggest you think and calm down before you type?

God bless,
Ed


#18

Oh I’m sorry, I don’t keep track of the popes. It was John Paul II who urged Catholics to look upon the Pope as “the Lord Pope” and the “sweet Christ on earth.” NOT the current pope.


#19

Welcome to the forum. It is very apparent that you lack any knowledge what we Catholic truly believe, especially when it deals with the Pope.

I don’t know why you would trust you Catholic friends admit to themselves that they worship the Pope. If that were true, they are at odds with the teachings of the Catholic Church. I think these Catholics friends of yours are probably not catechized well enough in the faith. It is apparent by their so called proclamation.

Let me give you the facts.

The Pope (currently Pope Benedict XVI) is the 265 Successor of St. Peter, the first Pope. He was chosen by Jesus Church whom he will built his Church upon.

Matthew 16:17-19.

Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jona! For Flesh and Blood has not revealed this to you but My Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this Rock, I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.

In the original Aramaic, the word Rock in Aramaic is Kepha. So if the passage was read in Aramaic it would read something like this; Jesus spoke Aramaic.

"Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jona! For Flesh and Blood has not revealed this to you but My Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Kepha and On this Kepha, I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

So this passage Jesus build his Church upon Peter. He goes on in Matthew 16:19 By granting Peter powers.

“I will you give the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatever you bound on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loose in heaven.”

This is were the Pope got is infallibility. This infallibility was later pass down to the other Apostles and disciples in Matthew 18:14-20.

What is infallibility? You might ask. Let us look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

891 “The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . . The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium,” above all in an Ecumenical Council. When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine “for belief as being divinely revealed,” and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions “must be adhered to with the obedience of faith.” This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.

So the Pope can teach infallibility when speaking on matters on faith and morals. Though this infallibility is not limited to the Pope.

The Magisterium of the Church has it. That is the Bishops in union with the Pope.

2051 The infallibility of the Magisterium of the Pastors extends to all the elements of doctrine, including moral doctrine, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, expounded, or observed.

Jesus Christ handed his authority to His Apostle first to Peter, then to the rest of his disciple. When they past away, their authority was given to the bishops, patriarchs, and Popes of today.

The Catechism cites this very clearly.

889 In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a “supernatural sense of faith” the People of God, under the guidance of the Church’s living Magisterium, “unfailingly adheres to this faith.”

The sources I provide can be found on this website.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p4.htm#890

Read it, and if you have any questions, ask them here and we Catholic Forum Members will do our best to answer all your questions.


#20

I for one find it hard to believe that JPII would be so egotistical.


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