The pope kissing the quran

Pope John Paul II kissing the Islamic Qur’an

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ChristBearer72/popekora.jpg

***"******a person’s actions define what he stands for.******" ***

**- quoted from “The Acting Person,” a book by **Karol Jozef Wojtyla (today known as Pope John Paul II)

Jesus said, “Judas, is it with a kiss that you betray the Son of Man?”

(Luke 22:48)

[left]"… On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shiite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni President of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank. There was also a representative of the Iraqi ministry of religion…At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book the Koran presented to him by the delegation and he kissed it as a sign of respect."** - **Raphael I Bidawid, Patriarch of Babylon of the Chaldeans in an interview with the FIDES News Service
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Look how far you have fallen from your first love! Turn back to me again and work as you did at first. If you don’t, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches.

(Revelation 2:5)

[left] **Pope John Paul II has “rejoiced” with Hindus and their “gods” during ceremonies such as their “Festival of http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ChristBearer72/popetik.jpg****Lights” and he even received the Hindu’s “divine eye” mark on his forehead. According to a report from the Vatican’s own FIDES News Service, on May 14, 1999 he kissed the Muslim Qur’an which denies our Lord as the Son of God he has built shrines to the so-called ****“Virgin of Guadalupe” apparition which has been documented as one lie stacked on top of another for centuries ****and he’s placed his own image on everything from “baseball-type cards” inside of potato chip bags to “Papal Miracle Mugs” *****(pour some hot water into the mug and instantly the black sky clears to reveal a giant Pope John Paul II bending over a city, his hands clasped devoutly in prayer). ***
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[left]**On one hand he preaches Christ and with the other hand he slaps our Savior in the face. **
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[left]He does not preach the Gospel of Christ, he preaches the Roman Catholic doctrine of the “Lumen Gentium” from Vatican II which as his very own Cardinal’s have stated says that you don’t need Jesus Christ to attain salvation:
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i answered this in the other thread. he was showing respect for the beliefs of these peoples. great missionaries throughout history have been hugely criticised for their acceptance and love of the people with whom they share the love of God. matteo ricci is a great example. he was accused of endorsing ancestor worship among the chinese in the 16th century, because he knew that publicly denouncing the practice of ancestor veneration would make the gospel inaccessible to his listeners.

like the evangelist in athens, sometimes you have to speak of ‘the unknown god’ whom your listeners are ‘already worshiping’ in order to gain their trust and ear. not in a deceptive way, in a redeeming way. God redeems us, not only as individuals, but as cultures.

may God continue to use such men to bring our muslim, buddhist, atheist, and all of our other brothers home to His love and truth.

I’m not going to get into this argument with you, it’s to late at night to go into that much depth tonight and there’s some great people on this forum than can probably do it better than I can.

What I will say is you hate what you do not understand. If you think your posts today are somehow a new revelation to any of the regular members here you are mistaken. We have heard it all. Things like :
We worship Mary

We pray to the dead

We believe we have to earn our way to heaven

We follow the popes teachings and not the Bible

We believe priests forgive our sins

I’m sure I’ve missed some but I can assure these accusations are not new to us. And none of the above that I listed is true of the Catholic faith. You are listening to what others have told you and not researching Catholicism and church history on your own. For your statements to be given some weight they have to be accurate. There is already a thread about the pope kissing the Qu’ran on this forum. When I find it I will post it for you.

i, for one, am glad that you’re taking this tack with the church. we are often influenced, for better or for worse, by the things with which we struggle. i pray that this struggle brings you closer to God.

peace and grace be with you, excatholic.

[quote=jeffreedy789]i answered this in the other thread. he was showing respect for the beliefs of these peoples. great missionaries throughout history have been hugely criticised for their acceptance and love of the people with whom they share the love of God. matteo ricci is a great example. he was accused of endorsing ancestor worship among the chinese in the 16th century, because he knew that publicly denouncing the practice of ancestor veneration would make the gospel inaccessible to his listeners.

like the evangelist in athens, sometimes you have to speak of ‘the unknown god’ whom your listeners are ‘already worshiping’ in order to gain their trust and ear. not in a deceptive way, in a redeeming way. God redeems us, not only as individuals, but as cultures.

may God continue to use such men to bring our muslim, buddhist, atheist, and all of our other brothers home to His love and truth.
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Remeber what happened to the false god dagon and baal. God has never compromised as he is a jealous God. Exodous 20:1-6 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image–any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

a lot of work to document his misunderstanding of the holy father’s action. Our Lady of Guadalupe… one lie on top of the other? betrays the inquiry is not as sincere as it might appear. Post calculated to agitate. God Bless you excatholic. May Our Lord meet you where you are at. JD

His great love never compromises His perfect justice or holiness, you’re right.

but fortunately (for me, among millions of others), He looks past our silly misconceptions about the world and loves and saves us anyway, often in spite of ourselves.

don’t be afraid. these are the words we hear throughout Scripture, whenever God interacts with man. these are the words that the Pope uses in his book ‘crossing the threshold of hope’ to let us know that God is still loving us, still redeeming us.

these are the words i express to you now. there is no fear in love, for perfect love casts out fear. don’t be afraid of ‘what the RCC is trying to do’ or ‘what diabolical plans the church is concocting for the end of the world’. God is still God. His will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

i pray for you, my friend, as i head to bed. i’m done for the night. goodnight, excatholic and carol marie, and the rest of you. don’t let the bed bugs bite. :slight_smile:

thank God we have people in this world with brains and that it isn’t filled with people like excatholic(sure…) that regurgitate anti-Catholic tracts and literature. Sigh, like if this is the first time we’ve heard all of this.

yawn…

Those in the mystical Body of Christ, the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, the fullness of truth that is the Catholic Church know the one Lord, Jesus Christ, and truly experience him during prayer and at the Sacrifice of the Mass.

[quote=rayne89]I’m not going to get into this argument with you, it’s to late at night to go into that much depth tonight and there’s some great people on this forum than can probably do it better than I can.

If you think your posts today are somehow a new revelation to any of the regular members here you are mistaken. We have heard it all. Things like :
We worship Mary

We pray to the dead

We believe we have to earn our way to heaven

We follow the popes teachings and not the Bible

We believe priests forgive our sins

I’m sure I’ve missed some but I can assure these accusations are not new to us. And none of the above that I listed is true of the Catholic faith. You are listening to what others have told you and not researching Catholicism and church history on your own. For your statements to be given some weight they have to be accurate. There is already a thread about the pope kissing the Qu’ran on this forum. When I find it I will post it for you.
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No need to post it again friend sorry you are mad but sometimes the truth hurts. You are wrong when you said this “What I will say is you hate what you do not understand”. I was a cradle catholic and at one point in my life I had given serious consideration to the priest hood. I had one problem that kept me from it however and that problem was the love of a girl I married. We have been together 27 years so it must have been God’s will. I know exactly what I hate and it is anything that Satan does. Right now Satan is using the RCC to deceive many. There was a church in Rome before the RCC, and there was a church in Jerusalem before Rome. I’ll side with the original church, the one headed by Jesus and not a compromising pope. Wish we had spellcheck.

[quote=jdemelo]a lot of work to document his misunderstanding of the holy father’s action. Our Lady of Guadalupe… one lie on top of the other? betrays the inquiry is not as sincere as it might appear. Post calculated to agitate. God Bless you excatholic. May Our Lord meet you where you are at. JD
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Any way you look at it friend it is a compromise! Like it or not. It hurt me also.

hmm, ever thought that if you wanted to become a priest and be married that you could become a priest in an Eastern Catholic church? Ever heard of the Byzantine Catholic Church, Maronite Catholic Church, etc.? Sorry, but these arguments just don’t work. We’ve heard it all.

Thanks for telling us what our beliefs are. Of course we’ll believe a non-Catholic and listen to him tell us what we believe(sure you were “Catholic” in the past, but your posts show that you don’t have any idea what we believe).

We’ll continue worshipping Mary b/c she’s the Goddess, the fourth member of the Trinity. We’ll continue praying to dead saints that can’t hear us. We’ll continue worshipping the “cookie god”. We’ll continue believing that the Pope is God. We’ll continue believing that the priest is the only means through which we can contact God. HAHHAHAHAHHA, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you said that this is what we actually believe. Check the Catholic Catechism for our beliefs, not some anti-Catholic literature.

And yes, we’ll continue to worship the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Trinity of God in the Church that Jesus Christ founded, the Catholic Church.

What church do you belong to that is the original church? Where can I find this church? What is it’s name? Any books I can read that show this history and that it can trace its origins from TODAY to Pentecost? If you say the Seventh Day Adventist Church, i’ll laugh out loud.

[quote=JRJ26]thank God we have people in this world with brains and that it isn’t filled with people like excatholic(sure…) that regurgitate anti-Catholic tracts and literature. Sigh, like if this is the first time we’ve heard all of this.

yawn…

Those in the mystical Body of Christ, the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, the fullness of truth that is the Catholic Church know the one Lord, Jesus Christ, and truly experience him during prayer and at the Sacrifice of the Mass.
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Little bits of truths mixed with lies. What a method of deception, sounds like it has worked well on you. I pray for lost Catholics because I was one of them. There is nothing “mystical” about Jesus, he is seated at the right hand of the Father according to Stephen. Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, Friend the term Catholic was not even used until Ignatious about 110 CE. In Greek it looks like this (Katholicos).
Jesus is the Rock and not Peter.

1 Corinthians 9:21-23
To those outside the law I became like one outside the law–though I am not outside God’s law but within the law of Christ–to win over those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak.*** I have become all things to all***, to save at least some. All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it.

[quote=excatholic]No need to post it again friend sorry you are mad but sometimes the truth hurts. You are wrong when you said this “What I will say is you hate what you do not understand”. I was a cradle catholic and at one point in my life I had given serious consideration to the priest hood. I had one problem that kept me from it however and that problem was the love of a girl I married. We have been together 27 years so it must have been God’s will. I know exactly what I hate and it is anything that Satan does. Right now Satan is using the RCC to deceive many. There was a church in Rome before the RCC, and there was a church in Jerusalem before Rome. I’ll side with the original church, the one headed by Jesus and not a compromising pope. Wish we had spellcheck.
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I am not angry my friend, I’m certainly sorry if I came across that way. Have you read the early church fathers? Do you really know church history? I say this with sincerety.

I have and everything points to the Catholic Church being the founded by Jesus Christ. I trust in the scriptures, and I give more creedance to writings of the early church fathers who lived in the 1st centuries after Christ, than modern idiologies.

Even so it is not church history that has given me the gift of Faith. That comes from my Lord & my God. Satan & Jesus Christ can not share the same house. My life, my marriage has gone thru such a miraculous healing since I returned to faith and my husband converted.He would not bless my life for following Satan. I feel the presence of Jesus at Mass, and when I just sit in the quiet of my church before the blessed sacrament reading the Bible or praying.

Your words are meant to scare people into believing they being lead by Satan. I have no fear of that. I am condfident in Jesus and his church. I am glad you have been blessed with a wonderful wife, that you have found your vocation in married life. God has a plan for us all. I will keep you both in my prayers that God continues to bless you and your wife and that that he leads you always in truth. It is something I pray for my husband and myself every night.

Peace

Ex-Catholic, you must be a lot of fun at parties. :smiley:

Is it tiring to be so angry and hateful all the time? Does that ever win converts for you? I doubt it. Your church must be difficult to attend with all those angry hateful people just looking for someone to fight with all the time.

Try reading and finding out what the RCC really teaches instead of arguing against something that doesn’t even exist.

Have a good evening.
Paul

I must comment here that I really like the

colorful

posts that excatholic makes. They are suspiciously like every anti-Catholic site I’ve ever visited.

[quote=excatholic]Right now Satan is using the RCC to deceive many. There was a church in Rome before the RCC, and there was a church in Jerusalem before Rome. I’ll side with the original church, the one headed by Jesus and not a compromising pope. Wish we had spellcheck.
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How could Satan possibly be using the RCC to decieve many? The RCC does nothing but good for the world with its teachings and actions.
You claim that there was a church in Rome and Jerusalem before the RCC. What was this supposed church titled, and explain its practices. Also, where is your source of information for this “previous church” claim?

Wish we had spellcheck.
I’m an English teacher; try a dictionary.

‘There is nothing “mystical” about Jesus, he is seated at the right hand of the Father according to Stephen.’

so… you find nothing mystical about the fact that Jesus is seated at the right hand of a spirit? how can a spirit have a hand? the thing i love about catholicism (as opposed to the protestant theology i grew up with) is that it realizes the mystery of truth, and doesn’t make it sound like God’s work, and self, are the easiest and simplest things in the world to understand.

the more i know about God, the more i experience Him, the more i realize that He’s so much bigger, and full of mystery, than i’ll ever be able to comprehend.

once again, i’m glad you’re arguing these things out, excath. i hope you know what you’re getting into… :slight_smile:

[quote=ICXCNIKA] Wish we had spellcheck.
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I’m an English teacher; try a dictionary.I must say I think you are in the wrong forum. You really don’t have the temperment for apologetics. You are far to hostile and I think this is lesson 1

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