The Pope taught heresy because he says "Christ is man not a spirit"?

I’d like to have your thoughts on this pastor’s blog arguing that Pope Francis made “the greatest fallacy in the Catholic Church ever” by stating in one of his sermons that Christ is a man and not a spirit. For him that’s wrong because Christ is actually a “spirit,” then quoted some scripture passages to support his personal interpretation. This pastor’s blog is just easy-to-read, won’t waste time, but you can see his blunders. Look at his interpretation for instance:

Now, if the son is equal to the Father and the Father is a spirit, it follows that the Son must also be a spirit!

JOHN 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
From the bosom of the spirit Father came the Son.

JOHN 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
He was begotten by the spirit Father.

HEBREWS 5:5
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made a high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee.

Strictly biblically speaking, a spirit begets a spirit!

JOHN 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

It is clear that the present pope is against this truth! He even said that Jesus is not a spirit but a person! Cannot a spirit, be a person in spirit?

HEBREWS 1:2-3
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

God the Father being a spirit is a person, and Jesus Christ is the express image of his person! But this does not classify Jesus Christ in the way that we know persons.

Here’s the link
elisoriano.com/blog/greatest-fallacy-roman-catholic-church-ever/. I think he’s the one here committing heresy by rather denying the absolute humanity of Christ. I don’t have the time to all look up his “heavily misunderstood” verses, not a scripture scholar at all, so could you point out where he’s made his own fallacy? Thanks.

Where did the Pope’s quote come from? I don’t have the context of the Pope’s comment. Thanks.

Hmmm, I think that you are somewhat confused.

Was Jesus born of a woman?

Did HE not take our human form in all it’s weakness?

We say that HE humbled Himself even unto death.

While all these statements are true, It is also true that HE did resucitate from the dead.

HE is NOT dead. HE is fully alive. He did not change HIS body, as HE showed the Apostle Thomas HIS pierced hands and feet and asked him to place his hand on HIS side where the lance of the soldier had pierced HIS sacred hearth. Nope HE kept the body HIS mother had given HIM.

NOW IF Jesus body is the same as before HIS crucifixion fully human but now it is perfected by being ALSO a glorified body. It stand to reason that JESUS is man and NOT a spirit. Spirits are the Angels who have NO body.
Also the Saints in Heaven ARE Souls without a body except the ones that were assumed in body like the Prophet Elijah, the Virgin Mary a very few others.
These Souls are awaiting the end of the world when as promised all the elect will be given glorified bodies and become inmortal as we were before the fall.
The teaching that Jesus is not fully man even today and only spirit deny the resurrection and it IS actually an ancient heresy.

Hope this helps.


youtube.com/watch?v=xNlEsbkHn_YYou can check it here. Apparently the blogger cut the whole thing and just left out the nine-second “Jesus is a man” clip.

Jesus became a man with a human soul. He was fully God and fully man. The Third person of the Trinity and the Father dwelled in Him.

It means: Jesus was not a spirit like the angels. He was fully man (as well as fully God). He was not transparent, like a ghost, or part of the angelic nature.

:thumbsup:

"To question or deny Jesus’ humanity is also heresy. It is the old heresy of ***Monophysitism. ***Monophysites distorted St. Paul’s statement that Jesus was “a man like us in all things but sin” and had difficulty understanding, for example, that He was subject to fatigue, or to all the humbling bodily functions, or the desires or temptations that all men have. They denied that Christ had a true human nature, believing that instead to two natures, both human and divine, that Jesus was physically human but His nature was divine. The human nature, they maintained, was absorbed into His divinity as a drop of wine is absorbed in an ocean. Therefore, they believed there was really only one nature in Christ which was His divine nature; hence, the name for their heresy: mono = one and physite = nature.

“The doctrine of the Monophysites was very close to the heresy of Docetism and the Gnostic-Docets. . . .”

The Catholic Church has always taught:

that Jesus is both God and man,
that He has both a divine and human nature but that He is one person,
that He always exists as God the Son, that He is equal to God the Father,
that He was begotten of the Father; He is not a created being,
that He was born as a human,
that He died and rose again,
that He ascended into heaven,
that He will come again to judge the living and the dead,
and that mankind’s salvation is through Christ alone.

From ANCIENT HERESIES RECYCLED IN THE MODERN AGE at Agape Bible Studies.

My thoughts? It’s simple, The argument makes sense for those who do not have even a basic understanding of Catholic theology, and this certainly appears to be the case for the person making the argument.

Yes, rather crafty the way he did that.

Here is a longer video clip:
youtube.com/watch?v=wMdX0fF2gU8&feature=youtu.be

Jesus has saved us, he said, with his prayers, with his sacrifice, with his life. He is gone now and he continues to pray – the Pope said – but does that mean that Jesus is a spirit? Jesus – he underlined – is not a spirit! He is a person, a man with flesh like our flesh, but in the glory of God. He said Jesus has wounds on his hands, on his feet and on his side. And when he prays he shows the Father the price of our salvation. Pope Francis said: “it is as if he is saying: Father, may this not be lost!”

en.radiovaticana.va/storico/2013/10/28/pope_francis_jesus_continues_to_pray_and_intercede_for_us/en1-741365

This is what I learned. :thumbsup:

Jesus was fully man and fully God!

What I learned is that Brother Eli (Eliseo Soriano) started his own church in the Phillipines in 1980 and uses it to espouse his theology and doctrines.

As someone else has already said, what he proposes is a heresy that was discussed and rediscussed during the mid 400’s and mid 500’s. It was eventually declared heresy but obviously it still reappears.

More info at New Advent:

newadvent.org/cathen/05633a.htm

Let’s be charitable and call him a material heretic. He is not Catholic you know, and one who is not Catholic may not be culpable for his errors, since he does not have the light of Faith. But I would steer away form his blogs, preaching, etc.as these may get you into trouble. It is not your job to convert non-believers directly, at least hard cases like this, just set a good example and pray for them. And never get into Scripture quotation battles unless you are very highly trained in the Scriptures and in Apologetics. Even then it is not the best approach.

Pax
Linus2nd

It helps to give pause to the gullible/naive/ignorant that there are other Scriptures which are not supportive of their pastor’s teachings though. We don’t have to be experts, but just enough to trigger their minds and questions (before they get brainwashed beyond help). It is so much harder to u-turn if you have invested so much.

What amazes me is how naïve these guys are, or how purposefully ignorant, perhaps, to believe the pope would be so grossly maligned in regards to the basic doctrines of the Church. Theology 101 would’ve covered those basics in seminary.

I doubt what he said about the Pope is true.
Must look it up.

Christ is man. It says so in the Bible.

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, (1 Timothy 2:5)

-Tim-

@ TimothyH - This was answered several posts ago.

Yah, but don’t get me wrong there. I’m not into the job of converting non-believers directly, and the preacher has already made up his own mind. Conversion is really the work of the Holy Spirit. However, I believe what I could do is study and probably ask questions from “experts” – Catholic “experts” – to see if other preachers are correct in using the scriptures or they rightly understand the Catholic faith. I believe that’s just what Apologetics is. Pastors may be convinced of their own teachings, but I’ve seen some of their members admit they are “still open” to the truth and “not totally brainwashed.” We’ve gotta at least shed some light to them.

His problem is, the pope didn’t say that.

Yep. It used to frustrate me a lot more, but now I either just shake my head or even laugh. The main problem for Protestants and their myriad of theologies is that they constantly have to attempt to reinvent the doctrinal wheel in order to ignore 1500+ years of Christian history and doctrine.

In my studies, what I find actually disturbing is the multitude of early church heresies that have cropped up since the Reformation, albeit in new guises. There is no lack of Arianism, Nestorianism and Sabellianism around, especially in the West.

And it’s all under the nifty little header of ‘evangelicals’.

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