The Priest and the Eucharist


#1

Hello. What happens if a validly ordained Catholic Priest leaves the Church and becomes a Priest or Minister in some other Church, say The Episcopal, Lutheran or Methodist Church. There, he administers Communion using the Words of Consecration and with valid matter. Is that host transformed into Christ? Is it a true Eucharist? If not, why not?

Very curious.

Grace and Peace,

RCF


#2

A similar question was answered on the Ask an Apologist forum:
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=22235&highlight=priest+eucharist

and

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=119&highlight=priest+eucharist

It appears the answer is no, as he does not intend the same thing as the Church. Should he repent, confess, believe, and come home, the answer would then be yes.

RyanL


#3

Since the power to consecrate the host is conferred upon him by the Bishop, the Bishop retains the right to deny this power, Scripturally, it comes from the power to hold and release.
Once the priest has left the Catholic Church, he no longer has the authority to act as such.

CHAPTER IV : LOSS OF THE CLERICAL STATE

Can. 292 A cleric who loses the clerical state in accordance with the law, loses thereby the rights that are proper to the clerical state and is no longer bound by any obligations of the clerical state, without prejudice to can. 291. He is prohibited from exercising the power of order, without prejudice to can. 976. He is automatically deprived of all offices and roles and of any delegated power.


#4

To expand the explaination of the authority.
CHAPTER I : THE CELEBRATION OF THE EUCHARIST

Can. 899 §1 The celebration of the Eucharist is an action of Christ himself and of the Church. In it Christ the Lord, through the ministry of the priest, offers himself, substantially present under the appearances of bread and wine, to God the Father, and gives himself as spiritual nourishment to the faithful who are associated with him in his offering.

§2 In the eucharistic assembly the people of God are called together under the presidency of the Bishop or of a priest authorised by him, who acts in the person of Christ. All the faithful present, whether clerics or lay people, unite to participate in their own way, according to their various orders and liturgical roles.

§3 The eucharistic celebration is to be so ordered that all the participants derive from it the many fruits for which Christ the Lord instituted the eucharistic Sacrifice.


#5

Can. 908 Catholic priests are forbidden to concelebrate the Eucharist with priests or ministers of Churches or ecclesial communities which are not in full communion with the catholic Church.


#6

Valid sacrament = matter, form and intent.

Since the Lutherans and Episcopalians belive in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and their eucharistic prayers include the words of consecration, and they are using valid form, if the priest who did leave the RC church did have the right intent, it would be a valid eucharist.

The ONLY sacraments that come from the jurisdiction of a bishop are confession and marriage. Bapsism, and Eucharist and Annointing of the sick can validly be done by a priest.


#7

[quote=gelsbern]Since the Lutherans and Episcopalians belive in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist…
[/quote]

Not to split hairs, but they believe in *con-*substantiation. If this is the priest’s intent, it is not the intent of the Church. Hence, the consecration would be invalid. They may call it Jesus, but they don’t think it is Jesus…they still think there’s bread there.


#8

[quote=] Can. 148 Unless the law provides otherwise, the provision of an office is the prerogative of the authority which is competent to establish, change or suppress the office.
[/quote]

[quote=] CHAPTER IV : LOSS OF THE CLERICAL STATE
Can. 290 Sacred ordination once validly received never becomes invalid. A cleric, however, loses the clerical state:
1° by a judgement of a court or an administrative decree, declaring the ordination invalid;
2° by the penalty of dismissal lawfully imposed;
3° by a rescript of the Apostolic See; this rescript, however, is granted to deacons only for grave reasons and to priests only for the gravest of reasons.

Can. 291 Apart from the cases mentioned in can. 290, n. 1, the loss of the clerical state does not carry with it a dispensation from the obligation of celibacy, which is granted solely by the Roman Pontiff.

Can. 292 A cleric who loses the clerical state in accordance with the law, loses thereby the rights that are proper to the clerical state and is no longer bound by any obligations of the clerical state, without prejudice to can. 291. He is prohibited from exercising the power of order, without prejudice to can. 976. He is automatically deprived of all offices and roles and of any delegated power.

Can. 293 A cleric who has lost the clerical state cannot be enrolled as a cleric again save by rescript of the Apostolic See.
[/quote]

[quote=] Can. 908 Catholic priests are forbidden to concelebrate the Eucharist with priests or ministers of Churches or ecclesial communities which are not in full communion with the catholic Church.
[/quote]


#9

[quote=RyanL]Not to split hairs, but they believe in *con-*substantiation. If this is the priest’s intent, it is not the intent of the Church. Hence, the consecration would be invalid. They may call it Jesus, but they don’t think it is Jesus…they still think there’s bread there.
[/quote]

Yes, but trans-substantiation, con-substantiation and what ever substantiation does not diminish the true presence. The “HOW” it happens It is one of those mysteries of our faith and I really don’t think one loses salvation for believing in consubstantiation as opposed to transubstantiation unless one is under the canons of the Roman Catholic Church as the RC Church puts a lot more baggage on her people than other non-roman catholics put on their adherants.

I guess the question is, does how it happens matter as long as we believe it does happen?


closed #10

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