The Rage of the GLBT - Karma for the Church?

I’ve seen so many debates here regarding homosexuality but I often have trouble seeing this particular sub-topic being discussed.

But before I go on, here’s a disclaimer: I don’t care for the GLBT agenda. To half the gays I know, I’m a friend but the kind of friend that’s never without a Fred Sanford-style remark.

What I don’t get is so why are so many Christians crying about the GLBT agenda winning so many hearts and sympathies? I just don’t get it. You’re talking about a minority that really has been bullied, harassed, and marginalized by religious authorities.

Now I hear Christians whining about them playing the victim card. Well Mr. Fred Phelps, who do you think gave them that card in the first place? :shrug:

Don’t you think it’s intellectually dishonest for Catholics to engage in a culture war with the GLBT movement and ignore just how much of its anger came from religious mistreatment? Don’t any of you even consider the idea that the whole movement was a backlash waiting to happen?

How could anyone act like this wasn’t coming?

It is our comeuppance and unless we truly cogitate about outreach we are going to lose.

I find it interesting that the anti gay movement is now playing the victim card and throwing a fit about being marginalized in public life.

I would be far, far more sympathetic about incidents like the Mozilla guy being forced to resign if the anti gay movement hadn’t spent so much of their time trying to keep gays out of public life. If they had just kept it to marriage, fine. But the refusal to pass the employment nondiscrimination act, the state laws and bills that try to allow for discrimination against gays, trying to keep gays out of the military, the boy scouts, etc.

Oh yeah, this is definitely karma.

But Christianity forbids homosexual conduct. Islam does too. Homosexual groups target churches including throwing bricks at a church. Recently, Muslim taxi drivers were allowed to not take part in a gay pride rally and did not have to follow dictates. Why did this happen?
Because homosexual groups know that Muslims will not tolerate this and the risk is higher of a violent response such as if a homosexual threw a brick at a mosque. Homosexuals have thrown bricks at churches because they know in most cases, the Christians won’t take action.

By that analogy, then all child molestation victims should be able to rise up against society as a whole and demand special treatment for the way they were victimized.

No matter who took part in the victimization, every one (even the innocent) must pay.

I’m Christian. I don’t believe in ‘karma’, I believe in God.

God doesn’t teach us to ‘bully’ anybody. So to blame ‘religion’ or religious people for doing something their religion doesn’t even TELL them to do is pretty disingenuous.

=Lost Wanderer;12137513]I’ve seen so many debates here regarding homosexuality but I often have trouble seeing this particular sub-topic being discussed.

I suppose I’ve avoiding discussing because it can turn into a platform for people to pretend to be a victim.

That’s the :cool: thing to do today and will get one all kinds of sniveling sympathy. :rolleyes:

But before I go on, here’s a disclaimer: I don’t care for the GLBT agenda. To half the gays I know, I’m a friend but the kind of friend that’s never without a Fred Sanford-style remark.

You’re going to get told at some point there is no agenda. It’s neat little strategy to get us to relax while they go to work attacking marriage.

What I don’t get is so why are so many Christians crying about the GLBT agenda winning so many hearts and sympathies? I just don’t get it. You’re talking about a minority that really has been bullied, harassed, and marginalized by religious authorities.

:ehhh:

By religious authorities? I don’t consider regulating marriage for the benefit of children and the state to be “bullied, harassed and marginalized.”

Also, I don’t consider Fred Phelps to be a religious authority.

This comment needs examples/clarifications!

Now I hear Christians whining about them playing the victim card. Well Mr. Fred Phelps, who do you think gave them that card in the first place? :shrug:

Well, understand that it’s :cool: to be a victim. Those straight, able-bodied white men who feel faux guilt can’t become another race or a woman, so being GLBTQ is the next best thing whether it’s real or not. It enables them to claim victim-hood, exonerate themselves from their ancestors crimes and to claim they are in the same boat as oppressed persons. :rolleyes:

These days, being GLBTQ is :cool: and pretty easy in most cases.

I cannot even begin to tell you how people have stretched the truth on claiming to be bisexual just for attention to show off a myspace page— or how they are going to “go gay” because they are sobering “nice guys” who can’t get a girl.

Don’t you think it’s intellectually dishonest for Catholics to engage in a culture war with the GLBT movement and ignore just how much of its anger came from religious mistreatment?

If that’s the case (if this is really about principle) where’s all the anger towards Islam? In Muslim countries, GLBTQ persosn may be executed.

In fact, a lot of the same mouths that bash Christianity over various social issue stances are the same ones who are fine with Muslim women having their own special pool & gym hours so no Western men see them in their bikinis and make cat calls at them.

It’s from the same cloth as those who whine about the African slave trade. The African slave trade still exists and is run by African and Arab nations. Why are they getting a free pass?

Don’t any of you even consider the idea that the whole movement was a backlash waiting to happen?

I suppose there is some “backlash”, but real Christianity would be about outreach and trying to include everyone. For it’s worth, at least the awareness of that is being known.

But make no mistake----the reason why this is being pushed (like oh so many other progressive causes) is for SELFISH reasons, not justice.

The** gay “marriage” movement stems from the entitlement, easy-way-out mentality**.

It’s pretty clear to me a lot of people support homosexual behavior because they have a gay family member, friend, or want to have good feelings running up and down his/her spine making eye contact with someone who is different on the street. :rolleyes:

There are always idealists, but really this is not just some kind of true quest for justice. It’s also a front to get liberal politicians in the West votes, just like all these ethnic or gender based organizations.

Their motives and agenda are plainly revealed when they viciously attack minority conservatives.

How could anyone act like this wasn’t coming?

That’s the impression that I first got. But when I started looking into the matter, Gallup was even tracking support for so-called gay “marriage” since the 1970s? I think Reagen was asked about it, and the 1984 DNC was held in SF for HIV awareness amidst gay issues?

A lot of these proposed marriage amendments should have come 30-40 years ago, and it just goes to show how traditional-minded folks are a step behind the activists.

And look, I know a lot of these folks were busy raising families and working, but really, if one has time to watch prime-time TV that now goes one’s better values and the NFL on Sunday, I think there’s time to pitch in on this a bit.

Frankly, the Church probably should have seen it coming, it’s part of their job as far as I’m concerned, but when kids sit around making posters of “Yes, Jesus Loves Me” instead of learning the nuts and bolts of the Faith and where people are too scared to talk about sex, well, there are consequences.

=BlueEyedLady;12137741]I find it interesting

Does this mean favorable?

that the anti gay movement is now playing the victim card and throwing a fit about being marginalized in public life.

Opposing so-called gay “marriage” is not anti-gay.

I would be far, far more sympathetic about incidents like the Mozilla guy being forced to resign if the anti gay movement hadn’t spent so much of their time trying to keep gays out of public life. If they had just kept it to marriage, fine. But the refusal to pass the employment nondiscrimination act, the state laws and bills that try to allow for discrimination against gays, trying to keep gays out of the military, the boy scouts, etc.

Such sympathy is not relevant and just shows the concept of revenge manifesting itself. It’s utterly pathetic that someone would have to resort to that tactic to get the agenda he/she wants.

So much for “tolerance, love and peace.”

It’s comments like these that remind me why as a person of minority status I support conservatives and will continue to do so.

In the free market businesses and customers, not government, should make decisions based on discrimination.

Using the logic in the prior comment, the government should then be able to force those who are pro-gay “marriage” to do business with the Westboro Baptist Church as well as with those who openly disagree with gay “marriage”.

As far as keeping gays out of the military, I want anyone who is eligible and who will not affect morale to serve.

Otherwise, if we turn out military into a social experiment, we are risking our lives and the lives of our loved ones.

As commentator Jason Lewis points out: “should we allow pregnant women to serve on submarine reconnaissance missions that could last over a year?”

That’s discrimination, too.

The “equality” being chased in the prior comment is impossible.

One can empathize with a victim of harassment, but that doesn’t mean they should smile when that person decides to start bullying other people as a reaction. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

I am not of any faith but I see something wrong with surgically maiming genitals and breasts and opposite sex hormonas to make a person false member of opposite sex because in their deluded mind they think they are of opposite sex. They should make this sad surgery criminal and a person can be Muslim, Jewish, Hindu or not believe in God (atheist) and see wrong with this. Something to consider. No normal straight man is going to tolerate homosexuals molesting boys. Scouts are a private organization yet they give up values for homosexuality. Straight men are expected not to trust homosexuals and there are straight women who are against homosexuality. Homosexual marriage is a minor topic because main idea is that there is something wrong with same sexual behaviors as they do not result in procreation and you do not need to be Christian to know this. There is something wrong with Milk being imposed on California students. Christians have become victims because they have tolerated this and sadly too many Christians see nothing wrong with these things. People must not be scared to tell the truths that offend homosexuals.

This is not true in my opinion, because it buys into the strange logic that person=behavior.

The Catholic church has not harassed or bullied gay PEOPLE, the Catholic church has spoken out about sins, and homosexual BEHAVIOR that is not the same thing. The Catholic church teaches that all persons are created by God, equal in dignity. What I have seen happen is when people saying “I am gay” they mean that homosexual behavior is an unavoidable part of them as a person which it is not and that means problems. I think that this is why we are seeing problems today.

Unconditional love does not mean unconditional approval of one’s actions.

Therein lies the difference.
Victim card = I want you to endorse, embrace, condone, and celebrate any decision I may make, any behavior I partake in, because I, or someone like me, has been victimized.

Victim = I want you to pray for me, help me, counsel me on how to overcome the trauma that was inflicted upon me in my life.

If a veteran of war asks for benefits due to PTSD, are they a victim? Or playing the victim card?

God bless.

:thumbsup:

And from what I have seen the LGBT community, led by their activist agenda, generally flaunts their condition in our faces. They wear it on their sleeve and are proud that they have “come out.” They wave flags and wear symbols just so we don’t happen to miss it. We are inundated with it and if that is not a bullying tactic, I don’t know what is. Get this! Your sexuality and your condition should be of no concern to us unless you ask for our advice and/or help. If you do ask, our Christian faith would then oblige us to charitably tell you the truth. But understand, we would never know if you didn’t tell us. We identify all humankind as being both body and soul and our Church teaches we must treat you with the respect and dignity due to your person. If you believe your entire being is only your sexual orientation, don’t blame us because that lie is coming from YOU and the world, NOT the Church!

My sexuality is no ones business but mine. If only the gay community believed the same thing…

LGBT people are at a higher risk for depression and suicide when they are young. They are also much wealthier than the average person. Relatively few of them have children. They have the backing of Hollywood, universities, and courts. They are in a fairly privileged situation.

Genuine homophobia probably caused somewhat of a backlash, but let’s not pretend to not recognize the larger picture. Marital fidelity and premarital purity were being broken apart in the 20th century, which was the catalyst for LGBT to gain the microphone. You cannot expect a culture to be able to successfully recognize why same-sex relations are wrong when they are already rendered blind to all of the other evils that led up to it. Really, modern people are simply taking the false beliefs of babyboomers to their logical conclusion. If there is a regression of knowledge in a culture, where marriage is no longer understood as a vocation or a sacrament, but rather as a sentimentality, then you’ve already shredded the reasons for not allowing civil same-sex marriage, open marriage, polygamy, and perhaps a few other things. The sacramental and vocational understanding of marriage was already jettisoned in the mid-20th century, which meant for several decades, a lot of the population was holding inconsistent and hypocritical views when it came to homosexual persons (or polygamists ,etc.)

This is also why you don’t even necessarily need to specifically address LGBT in order to undo the damage. All you have to do is win over a person to understanding marriage as a vocation and a sacrament. Once that achieved, everything else automatically fixes itself. Picture the climate of sexual immorality as being a layered tower, with one false belief stacking on top of another false belief. The layer at the bottom of this tower, which serves as its foundation, is the belief that marriage is not a sacrament and a vocation. If you can strike down this false view, everything else crashes down on itself.

They weren’t asked to participate in a gay pride rally and they didn’t have to do it because if they went on strike during the event the taxi service for the city would have been crippled as they made up 1/3 of the taxi drivers.

And Christians have beaten and killed people who are perceived as LGBTQ, I have scars to prove it (they thought I’m a lesbian, I’m not).

What a load of stereotyping tosh.

  1. most LGBT people are women
  2. Non-hispanic white are least likely to identify as LGBTQ
  3. men who identify as bisexual or gay get a lot of abuse and marginalization

It’s not actually that easy

Myspace? no one uses Myspace anymore, it’s so 2004.

Maybe people are more interested on what is going on in their own country to people they know than to people they don’t know in countries they don’t know much about.

Muslim women don’t wear bikinis and it would be rather nice to be able to go to the pool and not get catcalls (I have never worn a bikini and never will).

Western countries heavily profit from it and so do white consumers.

Well then there is very little “real Christianity” these days except in the modernist ones that are constantly redefining teaching.

Yeah, those incredibly selfish reasons like being guaranteed the right to visit their significant other in the hospital.

Err, okay.

Most are generally on about rights not votes for liberals.

The pot calling the kettle black, the world goes on.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

So many wrong statements.

You only notice the ones who are vocal, most are too busy living their lives.

Actually they are not much wealthier, they are much more likely to live in poverty

[quote="Gallup]Among those who report income, about 16% of LGBT-identified individuals have incomes above $90,000 per year, compared with 21% of the overall adult population. Additionally, 35% of those who identify as LGBT report incomes of less than $24,000 a year, significantly higher than the 24% for the population in general. These findings are consistent with research showing that LGBT people are at a higher risk of poverty.
[/quote]

Gallup

LGBT identification is more common amongst those without a college degree than those with one

Gallup’s analysis shows that identification as LGBT is highest among Americans with the lowest levels of education – contrary to what other, more limited, studies have shown. Among those with a high school education or less, 3.5% identify as LGBT, compared with 2.8% of those with a college degree and 3.2% of those with postgraduate education. LGBT identification is highest among those with some college education but not a college degree, at 4.0%.

(same source as above)

LGBT women are just as likely as non-LGBT women to be raising kids.

LGBT identification is lower among Americans with children under age 18 in their home (2.7%) than it is among those with no children younger than 18 in the home (3.9%). But this difference is largely due to fewer LGBT men reporting they have children in the home. Among women with children, 3.6% identify as LGBT (the same as the 3.6% among women not raising children). But among men with children, 1.8% identify as LGBT, compared with 4.2% of men who do not have children under 18 in the home.

Finally someone saying something that isn’t libel

Though I am non-Christian, I do not believe Christians beat up people who are perceived as homosexual. What I will say having known these cases is that most of them are young men defending themselves after homosexual committed criminal abuse such as homosexual grabs a young man’s butt or crotch against will (criminal assault and battery possibly sex abuse) and after the man defends himself by punching the gay in the face, the gay for sympathy tells of how he got bashed by intolerant bigots in an unprovoked attacked (even calling them Christians w/o knowing their faith) though it was the homosexual’s who committed sex abuse before men defended themselves.

I was minding my own business when some guys started calling me f****t and other disgusting terms, I told them to buzz off and they got rather violent, I spent the next couple days coughing up blood.

What religious authorities are you talking about? Has the Pope told the faithful to go forth and beat up members of the LGBT community? I don’t how it is in the Philippines, but I have never heard a Sunday homily which encourages mass goers to go out and beat up the gays.

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