The Real reason why one cannot be saved by faith alone.


#1

Because there is no such thing. We are told to believe in a non-existent premise


#2

Peace be with you!

[quote=Richard Lamb]Because there is no such thing. We are told to believe in a non-existent premise
[/quote]

You don’t want to see the clear teaching of God.

“There is a way which seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.” ( Proverbs 16:25 )

Be sure you are not walking in the way of death.

If you don’t want to see the sun, even if I tell you “look, this is the sun”, you will say: “No, this is not the sun! Where is the sun?”

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” ( Ephesians 2:8-9 )

If it is not by faith, then no one can be saved.

In Love,
Yaqubos†


#3

James 2:
<<14 What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? 15 And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:

16 And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? 17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. 18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead. >>


#4

Peace!

[quote=Tantum ergo]James 2:
<<14 What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? 15 And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:

16 And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? 17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. 18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead. >>
[/quote]

Exactly! Demons’ faith doesn’t save. So if you are talking about demons’ faith, I will surely say “you need to have good works” so that you may prove that your faith is the Christian faith.

But Christian faith lives!

In Love,
Yaqubos†


#5

What is demon’s faith?

There is no mention by James of “demon’s faith”, is there?


#6

Peace!

[quote=Tantum ergo]What is demon’s faith?

There is no mention by James of “demon’s faith”, is there?
[/quote]

“You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.” ( James 2:19 )

And I guess you notice that James is being very practical in what he is writing. So he is using practical terms. For instance, the whole Bible clearly says that Abraham was justified by faith, while James says that he was justified by works… Go now and understand what he was trying to tell those people who believed with demons’ faith!
And notice what is the work of Abraham, according to James! It is not that he went to help poor people etc, but that he obeyed God in sacrificing his son!

And the practical side is very clear in the following:

“did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court?
Do they not blaspheme the fair name by which you have been called?” ( James 2:5-6 )

Well, I don’t think you believe that God only chose the poor, and that rich people will not be saved, do you?

Do you think that only the rich blaspheme the Name?

So James is being practical in what he writes. What we must understand from James is that Christian Faith always lives!

For “THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH” ( Romans 1:17 )

Notice that the Scripture doesn’t say that the righteous will DIE by faith, but that he shall what? LIVE by faith.

In Love,
Yaqubos†


#7

If one is saved by faith ALONE, then what need is there of repentance and baptism. Let alone confessing one’s future sins to God in the future? One could make a momentary confession of belief in Christ in one’s youth and afterwards continue to live as the rest of the world. But the bible certainly does not teach such non sense. Faith embraces belief in Christ, but belief in Christ is not all that faith embraces. Faith embraces ALL that Christ desires for us TO DO.

                      Hebrews chapter 11 is often called the faith chapter. All the saints are mentioned as having a faith that pleased God. But what kind of faith did they have? A faith of just believing? Or a faith that obeyed what God expected ? Notice each of the persons and what it says prior to what they did. It says. BY FAITH so and so did this. Their faith brought forth a response on their part.

                      Now this leads us to the hopeless sinner. Can a sinner be saved by believing in Jesus? Certainly. But is that all our dear Lord requires of the sinner to do to be born again? No, it's not. Jesus said all men MUST be born again. They must be water baptized as well. Also Paul says in Acts 17:31 that God expects ALL men to repent. So we see here in just these three scriptures that faith embraces MORE than just believing to receive God's salvation and forgiveness. Much more.

                       Faith alone advocates just pick n choose the scriptures that speak of believing and totally ignore the OTHER scriptures which speak of repentance, baptism and obedience to the church thereafter. This is called misapplying the whole of the scripture and making a "shipwreck" of the faith.

#8

[quote=YAQUBOS]Peace!

Exactly! Demons’ faith doesn’t save. So if you are talking about demons’ faith, I will surely say “you need to have good works” so that you may prove that your faith is the Christian faith.

But Christian faith lives!

In Love,
Yaqubos†
[/quote]

You’re right, in James 2:19 he does talk about what kind of faith the demons have. But the kind of faith the demons have is faith alone, since they do not have faith working through love (James 2:17; Galatians 5:6). The preceding verses (and thus the entire context of the passage) make this crystal clear.


#9

[quote=YAQUBOS]“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” ( Ephesians 2:8-9 )
In Love,
Yaqubos†
[/quote]

why do people quote this verse as supporting sola fide? it clearly says we are saved by grace . that grace is imparted to us through our faith and that faith is realized through our works. verse 10 (which is so often neglected) supports that our faith is made perfect through our obedience to doing the works God has prepared for us to do. if we don’t do the works, we don’t have faith and therefore do not get the grace which saves us .


#10

Matthew 25:
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
All of these things are WORKS! How can we be saved by faith alone when Jesus Himself tells us right here that if we DON’T DO works, even if we know Him, we will STILL go to hell?!?


#11

I don’t believe that we are saved by Faith or by works, but by God’s grace.

But if I were to go by the words of Jesus describing the last judgment in Matthew 25:31-46, I would surely conclude that we must be saved by works, since that is the criteria He gives for entry into Heaven.


#12

Jim

       Yes we are saved by God's grace, but God's grace is RECEIVED THROUGH the sacraments of the church. Pennance, baptism and the Eucharist all impart the forgiveness of sins, which is granted to us by God's grace.

#13

rarndt01: I agree with you entirely. I was only making the point that in reading the Gospels, especially in the account of the last judgment, works come across as very important!


#14

YAQUBOS,

Welcome. I hope you don’t mind if I comment on some of your postings. You have some very interesting points.

[quote=YAQUBOS]…“There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.” ( Proverbs 16:25 )
[/quote]

Your right, 'f’aith alone is death.

…“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” ( Ephesians 2:8-9 )

Just a note, you forgot the CONTEXT of the verse. By not reading verse 10 you lost the meaning. Most protestants ignore verse 10 too so don’t feel bad. It proves the your use ov the verse out of context.

**(NIV) “Ephesians 2 **8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, ***created in Christ Jesus to do good ***works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”

It is clear by verse 10 that we are created unto good works or deeds. If you read various versions of Scripture like the AKJV or KJV or NKJV or AMP, etc… you will see that we are not save by works! We are not saved by manditory works/deeds (deeds is protestant for works) of the law either. Scripture is clear that without works/deeds our Faith is dead. A fig tree is known by its fruit and our Faith is known by its deeds! Remeber the virgens without oil/works? Remember that we must endure to the end? Remember not all who call my name will be saved? Verse 10 adds CONTEXT.

We have 'f’aith which is just a belief in Jesus. Then we have 'F’aith which is our entire Christian belief. Works do not produce 'F’aith and deeds will not save us. 'F’aith cannot exist without good deeds that are freely flowing out of it. The grace of God ‘alone’ saves us after Jesus judges us by the deeds that flow from our 'F’aith. If we are saeved by the herisey of '“f’aith alone in Jesus Christ as our perssonal Lord and saviour” then we must call Jesus a liar. You see, Jesus said He will judge us and we cannot. In order for faith alone to work then God must die and we must become God. Somewhat like a Mormon doctrine where we become gods?

I am not and never will be a god. I have a ‘HOPE’ to become God. (CCC 460) Scripture says we must ‘HOPE’ and thats what I have just like St. Paul and Jesus taught.

I enjoy your posts. Keep them comming. They remind me of when I was listening to my old Baptist preacher who only quoted verses to support what his opinions were. He ignored the other verses. Our Baptist Church wouldn’t even let another Baptist preacher from the other Baptist churches in town preach at our church when our preacher was gone. I guess it was fear of loosing members to the other preacher or contridicting theologies on salvation like predestination, etc…

If you can’t tell, I am an EX-protestant after 27 years of it.


#15

[quote=Tantum ergo]What is demon’s faith?

There is no mention by James of “demon’s faith”, is there?
[/quote]

Even the Devil believes in Jesus.


#16

True we are saved by God’s grace, but it is through God’s grace through faith and works…


#17

Faith must act as a channel through which God can work through us. Works are important definitely. But it seems to me that if you are doing it right, you are surrendering all of your being to God. It is no longer I, but Christ taht dwells in me. This cannot happen without faith. Works without faith is hollow; you are an actor, nothing more. All good things come from God. We are simply called to be his vessels.


#18

The issue of “salvation by faith alone” versus “salvation by faith and works” is one of the biggest issues that divide Christians, and it is based in part, on a communication problem. Catholics say that we need both faith and good works to achieve salvation. What appears to be a flat out contradiction is actually somewhat of a misunderstanding.

Most Christians agree on two things; (1) that faith is absolutely necessary for salvation, and (2) that we are absolutely commanded to do good works. Both of these points are unmistakably clear in Scripture. The problem is that the terms of the dispute are used in different senses. When Catholics say that we are “saved” by good works as well as faith, we mean by “salvation” the whole process by which God brings us to our eternal destiny. This process includes repentance, faith, hope, and charity (the works of love). Whereas, Protestants (non-Catholics) typically mean by the word “salvation”, being put right with God.

The word “faith” is also used in two different senses. Protestants use it in a broad sense of a person’s acceptance of God’s call to salvation, as it is used by St. Paul in Romans. But Catholics use it in the sense that Paul used it in 1 Cor 13, as one of the three theological virtues; with hope and charity being separate. In this sense, faith alone is not sufficient for salvation, because we also need hope and charity.

Catholics are describing faith as existing separate from actions. The Catholic Church describes faith as “an act of the intellect, prompted by the will, by which we believe what has been revealed on the grounds of the authority of God, who revealed it.”

With a clear definition of terms, both Protestants and Catholics say basically the same thing. Protestants say “faith (which must include hope and charity) is sufficient for salvation”, whereas Catholics say, “faith (without hope and charity) is not sufficient for salvation”.

However many Christians have very different beliefs on two related Issues: (1) The reason for the good works. Is there any merit for them, or are they just a natural by-product of faith? (2) How should we look at the “assurance of salvation?”


#19

[quote=rarndt01]If one is saved by faith ALONE, then what need is there of repentance and baptism. Let alone confessing one’s future sins to God in the future? One could make a momentary confession of belief in Christ in one’s youth and afterwards continue to live as the rest of the world. But the bible certainly does not teach such non sense. Faith embraces belief in Christ, but belief in Christ is not all that faith embraces. Faith embraces ALL that Christ desires for us TO DO.

Hebrews chapter 11 is often called the faith chapter. All the saints are mentioned as having a faith that pleased God. But what kind of faith did they have? A faith of just believing? Or a faith that obeyed what God expected ? Notice each of the persons and what it says prior to what they did. It says. BY FAITH so and so did this. Their faith brought forth a response on their part.

Now this leads us to the hopeless sinner. Can a sinner be saved by believing in Jesus? Certainly. But is that all our dear Lord requires of the sinner to do to be born again? No, it’s not. Jesus said all men MUST be born again. They must be water baptized as well. Also Paul says in Acts 17:31 that God expects ALL men to repent. So we see here in just these three scriptures that faith embraces MORE than just believing to receive God’s salvation and forgiveness. Much more.

Faith alone advocates just pick n choose the scriptures that speak of believing and totally ignore the OTHER scriptures which speak of repentance, baptism and obedience to the church thereafter. This is called misapplying the whole of the scripture and making a “shipwreck” of the faith.
[/quote]

Picking and choosing Scriptures is done by both sides of the Tiber, like using Matt.16:18 to define Peter’s authority and refusing to see the many other verses which show otherwise.


#20

[quote=Richard Lamb]Because there is no such thing. We are told to believe in a non-existent premise
[/quote]

Richard,

I am tempted to respond sarcastically because it appears you seem to think your brief sentence has revealed something profound. I will refrain from doing do so. But I would ask you define specifically what “faith alone” actually means *to those who hold to it * and then we can see if your brief statement is of any value.

Mel


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