The role of Blessed Mary in place of paraclete


#1

Remarkably, I am not catholic but I believe that Mary abides with Jesus Christ our LORD in heavenly realm. If so, then, it is not necessary for her to pray. I even want to set forth more notable belief competing with Catholics. Mary can speak out our prayers face to face as our interceder! But I am not argue with Reforms or Catholics if they don’t believe; each of us is free to believe according to given him grace and wisdom. Next is the question. If any body knows is there any difference between two statements: Mary is our interceder and Mary is our mediator? I didn’t find any differences between these two notions in linguistic dimension but I am not sure that catholic scholars do the same. Depending on your respond my key question might be followed. :shamrock:


#2

Why is it not necessary for Mary to pray in the heavenly realm? Prayer is simply communication with God, mainly worshiping Him. You are correct that there is no need for her to ask anything for herself. But she is a part of the Communion of Saints, the Church Triumphant in heaven, which means that she and all the saints are constantly interceding on behalf of the Pilgrim Church on earth.

Mary’s relationship with the Holy Spirit is singular. Mary’s first mention in scripture is overshadowed by the Holy Spirit at the Annunciation. Mary’s final mention in scripture is again overshadowed by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. At the Annunciation, Jesus is formed in His human body in Mary’s womb. At Pentecost, Christ’s mystical body is formed as Mary supports the infant Church with her presence and her prayer. Jesus is always the fruit of Mary, through the collaboration of the Holy Spirit.

As for the terms mediator and interceder, I don’t see a difference. Both act as a “go-between.” There are many examples of mediators in the Old Testament. Moses was a mediator. The prophets were mediators.

Of course, Jesus is the one and only true Mediator. But all those who are united with Him, members of His mystical body, can also intercede. Mary’s intercession is most powerful because of her singular privilege as Mother of God, and because she was His first and greatest disciple, a woman of faith. He who responded to her act of faith and performed His first miracle at her request, still listens to her today.

  • Westy

#3

I think when God met Moses in the Mt Sinai or in the tabernacle there was a conversation; it was not “simply communication with God, mainly worshiping Him,” (Ex.33:9). So Mary as well, when she comes in the present of the King she talk, face to face. So, to say, “Mary pray for me,” it is nonsense. Rather we should say, Mary plead, say, ask the Lord and so on. The next point. You said absolutely right, Jesus is the one and only true Mediator; then, Who is Mary? Not true mediator? or may be She is a mediator between true Mediator when we pray to the Father. It is my question. But by the way, keep in mind that the Bible doesn’t provide any knowledge about additional mediator between Jesus Christ and people except Paraclite. (Rom 8:16, 26,27; Jud 1:20) Thank you.


#4

Mary and the Communion of Saints may act as intercessors for us, but there is a difference between intercession and mediation. There is only one mediator between God and humankind, and that is Christ. If someone asks for you to pray for them, that is intercession.


#5

Thank you for replica. What do you think it was in the apostle’s mind when he wrote, 'there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,"
According Thayer Definition: μεσίτης 1) one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant
2) a medium of communication, arbitrator.
What do you think is proper to subscribe to Christ, first, second or both definitions?


#6

As I said, the Bible states that there is only one mediator between God and humankind, and that is Jesus Christ. This is because through Jesus God established a New Covenant, a new Testament with humankind. It is quite proper to subscribe to the first definition - “one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or ratifying a covenant.” At the judgment, Christ becomes our judge and arbitrator.


#7

I like to believe that Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit. And in a matrimonial sense, the two are one.


#8

Good. But for Mary is there any definition is legal? Can we support for her any from these two definitions.


#9

**As long as you understand that the Church does not equate Christ’s mediation with our *intercession *for one another. Christ bestows eternal life on all who eat his flesh and drink his blood. Therefore the redeemed in heaven are alive in Christ, not asleep or dead. A word that is synonymous with ‘intercede’ is ‘pray.’

1 Timothy 2:1-2 commands everyone "to make petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings on behalf of all men."
Since we believe that death brings us to life with Christ, seeing him face to face and becoming like him (1 John 3:2), we still can pray and intercede for others. We are not deprived of that ministry. And neither is Mary, the mother of Jesus.

And what and how do the saints intercede for us? For one thing, their ministry of prayer continues. They do not cease to be saints because they are face-to-face with God. When *we *pray for someone, for what are we praying? Are we praying that God may heal them if they have a physical affliction? Are we praying that God may grant them peace if they suffer mentally? Are we praying that someone in their immediate family needs a miracle of somesort? Are we praying that God grant them perseverence in life and that, through His grace, they may sort things out and become once again productive? There are numerous things we ask of God for the person we pray for, even conversion.

So, to answer your question, a ‘legal’ definition for Mary the mother of Jesus, as far as an intercessor goes, is one who ‘prays’ for us and with us so that the graces of God will soften our hearts and help us draw closer to Him. Saint Paul knew the effects of making petitions, offering prayers, acting as intercessors for another, and thanksgivings; otherwise, he wouldn’t have mentioned it and encouraged it.

To further answer your question, no, the definition that we agreed to with regard to Christ as sole mediator between humankind and God cannot be applied to Mary the mother of Jesus. **


#10

Not to mention the fact that Christ is the one and only Mediator because he is the Truth, the Way and the Life, and Christ is the one who is necessary for salvation. No-one can go to the Father except through the Son. In order for us to inherit Eternal Life, we must go to Jesus, not any other saint.

For intercession, it is an ‘acting on our behalf’. They have already attained heaven and so thus inherited the Kingdom of God. They know what’s what. We may want their help, and so when it comes to intercession, they pass the word along and also can give us themselves from their own experience that we may be enlightened.

Remember, saints are those who have done God’s Will throughout the ages. To accept them is to accept God, because yes, we can pray to God for guidance and Christ and the Holy Spirit ourselves, but God may give us a Saint to follow, that is, a role model in the particular area we are struggling in. They have succeeded, and so we can learn from them.


#11

According your logic all items in the list are synonyms and thereby petitions and thanksgiving they are also prayers and vice versa. If there is no difference between these four the new translation may be issued, “First of all, then, I urge that prayers such as supplications, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,” But I agree that these four very close in their meanings.
I glad to hear from you truth that Christ is Only Mediator! Instead you said that Mary is an intercessor. Unfortunatly many Catholics see Mary as the mediator. There is always problem, the people’s wish to adjust not biblical practice to what the Bible really says.
I posted this message previously. Did you read it? I think when God met Moses in the Mt Sinai or in the tabernacle there was a conversation; it was not “simply communication with God, mainly worshiping Him,” (Ex.33:9). So Mary as well, when she comes in the present of the King she talks, face to face. So, in this sense to say, “Mary pray for me,” it is not quite true. Rather we should say, Mary plead, say, ask the Lord and so on. The next point. You said absolutely right, Jesus is the one and only true Mediator; then, Who is Mary? Not the true mediator? or may be She is a mediator between true Mediator when we pray to the Father. It is my question. But by the way, keep in mind that the Bible doesn’t provide any knowledge about additional mediator between Jesus Christ and people except Paraclite. (Rom 8:16, 26,27; Jud 1:20) Thank you.


#12

**That’s an interesting insight - she may be a ‘mediator’ between us and Christ when we pray to the Father. See, I wouldn’t use the term in that sense, but would say she is an ‘intercessor’ for us to Christ when we pray to the Father which, in fact, is what the Church teaches. But since Mary herself was filled with the Holy Spirit, one could see how she could be looked upon as what you suggest. **


#13

I believe all true Christians once were filled up with the Holy Spirit not only Mary. But by the way it is difficult to define truth on the basis of non sound doctrines. When I posted any statement I tried to support it by Scripture. Once you mentioned that the reason why you ask Mary for interceding is the wish to empower your prayer due to Mary is the special. But it is again non biblical. Scripture teaches what is really empower our prayers that are kindness, mercy, charity, fast and so forth. Like Cornelius (Act 10:4) to whom Peter was sent or Christians in Antioch (13:2). It is real remedy by means which we can empower our prayer. But your statement is taken from human logic not from Scripture. That is difference. If you want to be constructive please support your statement by the written tradition that is NT. Thanks.


#14

You have not listened to those of us who were kind enough to respond to your posts, and that is sad. God bless you, and I pray God softens your heart to understand the Truth.


#15

Perhaps I am not understanding the point you are trying to make. Mary and the Saints are one with Christ in that we are members of His Body, the Church. We are so interconnected that we, too, can intercede for each other (not exactly the same as being a mediator, I guess). Also, our sufferings can be redemptive. Let me digress for a moment:

St. Paul said: “I am now rejoicing in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am completing what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body that is the church” (1 Col 24). So what affliction is Christ “lacking” that Paul, a mere man, could possibly complete? Clearly St. Paul, one with Christ, is also offering his sufferings for the Church.

And on the road to Damascus when Paul was struck down, Christ said: “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” But how could Paul be persecuting Christ who had already died, rose, and ascended into heaven? Paul was actually persecuting the Church. Yet Jesus asked: “Why do you persecute ME?” So closely is Christ united with the Church that Christ speaks of Himself as being “persecuted.”

One more example, that has to do with intercession, from the book of Revelations: “Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with burning coals from the altar, and hurled it down to the earth. There were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.” – Revelations 8:3-5

It is clear that the Saints (with Our Heavenly Mother at the top) also intercede on the Church’s behalf. So while Christ is the one and only true mediator, the members of His Body enjoy a portion of that benefit, with Mary having the highest. The point is, we would not have *any benefits at all *without Christ as our Head.

As for insisting on only NT references, the Catholic Church does not support “Sola Scriptura.” The Holy Spirit who inspired the Gospel writers is the same Holy Spirit who guides the Church. In fact, you wouldn’t have the New Testament writings without the Church.

  • Westy

#16

The words “Mary pray for me” is correct, because the word “pray” means to ask or request as well as how we communicate with God. That is the sense in which it is used when we ask someone to pray for us. However, the use of the word “pray”, as in “Pray, tell me…” has become rather archaic, but that does not change the meaning of the word.


#17

#18

I apology to those whom I didn’t answer. I’ve yet not well navigator in this site. But it comes soon. Thanks for understanding. Blessing.


#19
  • Absolutely, I agree with you regarding Saints as examples to us follow. Paul as a character the best known as the true disciple of our Lord. He is my leader, he is the likeness of Jesus. In (Gal.3-1) Paul portrates as the living image of the suffering Christ indwelling in Paul… Paul’s wounds vividly witness to Galatians about his faith, love and about suffering Christ who dwells and lives in him. (Gal 6:17). “From now on let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.” Paul is worthy to follow to anyone. You will love Paul as your best friend who will teach you truth. He is the most empowered character in NT after Christ. Read intentionally Paul’s Epistles and Act and you discover the wonderful man whom as I said is worthy to follow. Blessing.

#20

Thank you. Blessing


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