The Role of the Papacy

“The roles a Pope plays are various and complex: Fortune 500 CEO. media superstar, diplomat, politician, theologian, philosopher, pastor, and voice of conscience. It is an impossible job, and no human being can perfectly do every task a Pope is called upon to perform. Every Pope will emphasize some aspects of the job at the expense of others. Pius XII, who governed the Church during the tumultuous days of World War II, was a superb diplomat, but did not project the pastoral face of John XXIII. John Paul II is a deep thinker, a media phenomenon, and maybe the greatest apostolic traveler since St. Paul (129 countries visited so far in his twenty-six year papacy, the equivalent of two years on the road), but there has been a price to pay. He has had to leave many aspects of the governance of the Church in the hands of his aides. Yet every Pope exercises all these roles at some stage, and the men and women of the Vatican assist him in doing so. One will never understand the psychology of the Vatican without grasping their sense of the gravitas and the importance of the papal office. For them, this is not the Queen of England at Buckingham Palace, a largely symbolic relic of a bygone era without real-world clout or significance. This is from the Vatican’s point of view, the living presence of Peter in the Catholic Church and the most important voice of conscience in human affairs.”

(From All the Pope’s Men by John Allen, Jr. pp. 21-22)

Any reactions?

Antonio :slight_smile:

I think the Holy Spirit gives us a Pope to meet the demands of a particular time. For example, in the tumultous era of WWII, a diplomat like Pius XII was probably needed. In today’s Culture of Death, we have Pope John Paul II who is a strong preacher for the Gospel of Life.


[quote=RNRobert]I think the Holy Spirit gives us a Pope to meet the demands of a particular time. For example, in the tumultous era of WWII, a diplomat like Pius XII was probably needed. In today’s Culture of Death, we have Pope John Paul II who is a strong preacher for the Gospel of Life.
[/quote]

Absolutely!

And what Pope do you think we will need in the future to face the secularism of the day and the clash of civilizations so many folks are not even willing to admit exists?

Antonio :confused:

That’s a good question!!! I think it will have to be a Pope who is very Holy, yet strong enough to stand for what is right and not yield to the spirit of the age…


[quote=RNRobert]That’s a good question!!! I think it will have to be a Pope who is very Holy, yet strong enough to stand for what is right and not yield to the spirit of the age…
[/quote]

And one who is willing to defy conventional wisdom regarding our relationship with Islam. The new Pope might have to declare that the holy Catholic Church can’t maintain a dialogue with normative Islam if normative Islam isn’t willing to denounce the aberration of militant Islam which threatens not just the peace of the West but the very survival of Roman Catholicism.

Antonio :confused:

Antonio: Actually nothing threatens the survival of Holy Mother Church. Remember our Lord’s promise: And the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

By the way, the security of the West may be threatened, but the majority of the suffering due to terrorism is felt in the Middle East, certain parts of Africa and Asia (such as areas of Indonesia). We may get hit on occasion, but it is really the Christians and innocent Muslim bystanders of these countries that truly suffer from terrorism.

After 9/11, a newspaper columnist asked “Where are the fatwas condemning this?” he pointed out that if a bunch of radical Christians flew a plane into Mecca, Yankee Stadium would not be able to hold all the ministers who would condemn such a perversion of our faith, and that the Pope himself would rend his garments with grief. Yet, where, he asked, are the Muslim clerics who condemn the actions of the terrorists?

From what I understand, most muslim clerics (especially those oversees) preach hatred against the United States. As someone else said, Islam is only a religion of peace in areas where it is a minority.

A Belloc fan – wonderful.:slight_smile:

Have you seen what he wrote on “The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed”?

www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/spok/metabook/heresies.html

Just as militant Roman Catholicism threatens the peace and survival of other Christians?

What difference is there between Rome’s papal claims to divine rule over all the world by sword as in Unam Sanctam and Islam’s claim that those resisting should be killed if they refuse to accomodate themselves, by belief or taxes, to Islamic revelation?

the Society of Medieval Lithuania:

During the crusade in Palestine the Teutonic Order (Ordo Theutonicorum Sanctae Mariae Dei Virginis) was established in 1190. In 1226 the Polish (Masurian) Duke Conrad invited the knights of the Order and granted them a small province of Kulm (Chelm) on the Vistula. He was hoping to use them in the fight against the pagan Prussians. The European rulers Emperor Frederick II (1226) and Pope Gregory IX (1230) approved the gift. In 1234 the Pope took the Order “in ius et proprietatem beati Petri” and gave all pagan Prussian lands “in veram et perpetuam proprietatem possidendum pleno iure” to it. The statement was reiterated by the popes Urban IV in 1263 and Clement IV in 1268. This laid the foundation for the state of the Teutonic Order. Pope Innocent IV divided all Prussian lands into four dioceses in 1243, granting them one third of the Prussian land and two thirds of the lands to the Order. In fifty years all Prussian lands from the Vistula to the Nemunas were conquered by the Order. The Prussian tribes were subordinated to the power of the Order and christened against their will. In 1283 the cruellest war of the Order against the pagan Lithuanians started and continued for over a hundred years. The objective of the war thrust upon Lithuanians by the Order was to establish their own state.

In the middle of the 13th century a pagan Lithuanian state was formed. It fought a war of life and death against the Order. The Order sought to gain control of the country and then convert the population without granting the new Christians any political or social rights. This brought about wide resistance of the population. The Order colonised the occupied Prussian lands, created public institutions and defence system. In the warfare against the pagans, the Teutonic knights burned their farms and villages, killed the old and the young, took the stronger men and women into captivity and took away their livestock. In the 14th century the knights carried out approximately 100 military campaigns in Lithuania, while Lithuanians waged twice as few campaigns in Prussia. The climax of the war reached in the latter half of the 14th century, yet it did not bring a victory to either side. The Lithuanians managed to push the Tatars out of their Ukrainian and Belarussian territories, annexed these lands and acquired a huge military power in their opposition against the Order.

viduramziu.lietuvos.net/socium/krikscionybe-en.htm

I personally do not pay any attention to what Pope John Paul says or does. I just attend mass and receive the blessing of our Lord at my parish, as do other Catholics who attend. I think more attention is given to Pope John Paul in Rome because that’s where he resides and all the Italians surround him. So he’s like thousands of miles away from us here in America.

[quote=Fr Ambrose]A Belloc fan – wonderful.:slight_smile:

Have you seen what he wrote on “The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed”?

www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/spok/metabook/heresies.html
[/quote]

Actually, I haven’t had a chance to read much of his work, as they’re hard to come by. I came across the quote in Karl Keating’s Controversies: High Level Catholic Apologetics, which had letters by him and other Catholics to Protestants and atheists.
I looked at the link you posted and looked briefly at them, then downloaded them so i can read them when I have more time. Thanks! :slight_smile:

The Pope has a particularly special challenge with the Beast of Revelation being unveiled soon.


[quote=RNRobert]After 9/11, a newspaper columnist asked “Where are the fatwas condemning this?” he pointed out that if a bunch of radical Christians flew a plane into Mecca, Yankee Stadium would not be able to hold all the ministers who would condemn such a perversion of our faith, and that the Pope himself would rend his garments with grief. Yet, where, he asked, are the Muslim clerics who condemn the actions of the terrorists?

We don’t have to go too far back in history to remember when Paul VI denounced the IRA for trying to justify its violence in the name of Catholicism. Indeed to decapitate people in the name of God and to blow up 35 children in Iraq in the name of God is complete sacrilege and should be denounced by any decent Islamic leader. I think Rome did comdemn the brutal action.

From what I understand, most muslim clerics (especially those oversees) preach hatred against the United States. As someone else said, Islam is only a religion of peace in areas where it is a minority.
[/quote]

You’re correct and they preach such hate inside sacred places, mosques. However, what worries me is that because of a poor understanding of ecumenism, neither our bishops nor the Pope have denounced such activity before the whole world.

Antonio :frowning:


[quote=Myhrr]Just as militant Roman Catholicism threatens the peace and survival of other Christians?

Could you not find a more asinine accusation than this one? At a time when Rome has established ecumenical relations with most of Christianity creating a climate of dialogue, you throw at us this simple piece of propaganda?

“What difference is there between Rome’s papal claims to divine rule over all the world by sword as in Unam Sanctam and Islam’s claim that those resisting should be killed if they refuse to accomodate themselves, by belief or taxes, to Islamic revelation?”

  1. You misread Unam sanctam. Last time I checked it referred only to Roman Catholicism and you have to understand the historical context from which the document proceeds.

  2. The threat of Islam today does not come from “normative” Islam but from militant Islam.

What does any of this has to do with the role of the papacy TODAY? That’s where you are missing the point.

Antonio :confused:

viduramziu.lietuvos.net/socium/krikscionybe-en.htm
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[quote=rarndt01]I personally do not pay any attention to what Pope John Paul says or does. I just attend mass and receive the blessing of our Lord at my parish, as do other Catholics who attend. I think more attention is given to Pope John Paul in Rome because that’s where he resides and all the Italians surround him. So he’s like thousands of miles away from us here in America.

[/quote]

Thank you for sharing with us your lack of loyalty for the Bishop of Rome but if you read the initial thread, your particular feelings for the Pope have very little to do with what I was asking.

There is a non-Catholic forum and perhaps you want to check it out because Catholics, whether progressive, moderate , orthodox, have deep respect for the Pope as the Vicar of Christ on earth and would never say “I personally do not pay any attention to what Pope John Paul says or does.”

Antonio :rolleyes:


[quote=Calbreese]The Pope has a particularly special challenge with the Beast of Revelation being unveiled soon.
[/quote]

And would you care to eleborate on your assertion?

Antonio :smiley:

Oh boy, here we go again. Is he

Ronald Regain

Adolph Hitler

Nero

Saddam Husain

Gorbechef

[quote=RNRobert]After 9/11, a newspaper columnist asked “Where are the fatwas condemning this?” he pointed out that if a bunch of radical Christians flew a plane into Mecca, Yankee Stadium would not be able to hold all the ministers who would condemn such a perversion of our faith, and that the Pope himself would rend his garments with grief. Yet, where, he asked, are the Muslim clerics who condemn the actions of the terrorists?

From what I understand, most muslim clerics (especially those oversees) preach hatred against the United States. As someone else said, Islam is only a religion of peace in areas where it is a minority.
[/quote]

That is a very good message which everyone needs to read at least once a week. Thank you! :thumbsup:

[quote=Calbreese]The Pope has a particularly special challenge with the Beast of Revelation being unveiled soon.
[/quote]

Almost everyone in the world knows Pope John Paul II political opinions of most of the wars in the past decade. On another thread they were quoting how only around ten percent of people polled in the UK knew God’s ten commandments.

In Revelation the third angle tells us that those who obey God’s commandments are those who DO NOT HAVE the mark of the Beast on their forehead (mind), right hand (strength). We are instructed by God to have His commandments written on our mind (forehead), strength (right hand) heart and soul. Obeying God with all your mind, strength, heart and soul is how we love God.

As to knowing who the beast is, it is more important the world know how NOT TO HAVE the beast’s mark on their forehead and hand which is accomplished by having God’s law on your mind (forehead), strength (right hand), heart and soul.

Let us pray that our next Pope will be proactive in insuring that God’s Law is known by the world over insuring that his political opinions are known to the world.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com

**NAB DEU 11:18 **
[indent]“Therefore, take these words of mine into your heart and soul. Bind them at your wrist as a sign, and let them be a pendant on your forehead. Teach them to your children, speaking of them at home and abroad, whether you are busy or at rest. And write them on the doorposts or your houses and on your gates, **so that, as long as the heavens are above the earth, you and your children may live on in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers he would give them.” ****“For if you are careful to observe all these commandments I enjoin on you, loving the LORD, your God, and following his ways exactly, and holding fast to him,…” **

**NAB REV 14:9 **

“If anyone worships the beast or its image, or** accepts its mark on his forehead or hand**, he too will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger. He will be tormented in burning sulphur before the Lamb, and the smoke of their torment shall rise forever and ever. There shall be no relief day or night for those who worship the beast or its image or accept the mark of its name.This is what sustains the holy ones, who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. I heard a voice from heaven say to me: “write this down: Happy now are the dead who die in the Lord!” The Spirit added, "Yes, they shall find rest from their labors, for their good works accompany them."

NAB MAR 10:17

"Good Teacher, what must I do to share in everlasting life?" Jesus answered, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments:
**'You shall not kill;…”
**

**NAB LUK 10:25

**“Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?” Jesus answered him: "What is written in the law? How do you read it?" He replied:
“You shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart,…”

[/indent]


[quote=rarndt01]Oh boy, here we go again. Is he

Ronald Regain

Adolph Hitler

Nero

Saddam Husain

Gorbechef

[/quote]

Neither, just a Catholic who asked you to explain your asinine statement!

Antonio

:frowning:

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