The Rosary and Matthew 6


#1

[my response in another thread about the nuns on EWTN reciting the rosary is being used here as a discussion starting point]

Sure, sure. You know those cloistered nuns—always looking for attention. :rolleyes:

Understand the rosary and you will understand it’s not vain repetition. The rosary is a meditation on the mysteries of Christ.

As we look at the passage of Mt 6, we see that He is talking about hypocrites—those who stand on street corners and babble their prayers over and over in order to be seen as pious.

Cloistered nuns glimpsed on television for the express purpose of leading others (mostly senior citizens and shut-ins) in prayer and meditation of Christ is about as far from vanity as one can get, friend.

It irks me when people use Mt 6 against the rosary. Actually reading the Word of God, as opposed to repeating the words “vain repetiton” seems the best remedy here.

Reading that particular passage puts me in mind of the televangelists and their all-too-public and babblingly-long prayers which are often supplemented with crocodile tears and false emotion.

The passage is not about being against structured prayer.
The passage is about being a hypocrite.

Read the passage and see that what is condemned is babbling, showy prayer paraded about only to impress others.

Ever notice that this passage is immediately followed by a structured prayer which we have been repeating now for 2000 years??? It’s called the Our Father.

For anyone who doubts God’s acceptance of repetition—try reading Psalm 136.


#2

Good post, NPS !

Actually, some antiCatholics criticize us for praying
the Our Father. They claim that because the Our Father
is a “model prayer,” which it of course is,
that we should not pray that prayer exactly as worded.
Gimme a break. Complain, complain, complain.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+


#3

Did you know that someone would say that is not a prayer? :slight_smile:

I also wonder what the Saints are doing in Heaven all day long for eternity - are they trying to say/pray something and wait for the next hour or so and do it again to avoid repetition? :smiley:


#4

NPS;2916472][my response in another thread about the nuns on EWTN reciting the rosary is being used here as a discussion starting point]

Sure, sure. You know those cloistered nuns—always looking for attention. :rolleyes:

Understand the rosary and you will understand it’s not vain repetition. The rosary is a meditation on the mysteries of Christ.

As we look at the passage of Mt 6, we see that He is talking about hypocrites—those who stand on street corners and babble their prayers over and over in order to be seen as pious.

Cloistered nuns glimpsed on television for the express purpose of leading others (mostly senior citizens and shut-ins) in prayer and meditation of Christ is about as far from vanity as one can get, friend.

**It irks me when people use Mt 6 against the rosary. Actually reading the Word of God, as opposed to repeating the words “vain repetiton” seems the best remedy here.

Reading that particular passage puts me** in mind of the televangelists and their all-too-public and babblingly-long prayers which are often supplemented with crocodile tears and false emotion.
The passage is not about being against structured prayer.
The passage is about being a hypocrite.

Read the passage and see that what is condemned is babbling, showy prayer paraded about only to impress others.

Ever notice that this passage is immediately followed by a structured prayer which we have been repeating now for 2000 years??? It’s called the Our Father.

For anyone who doubts God’s acceptance of repetition—try reading Psalm 136

.

Why is it you condemn someone who states their opinion on the rosary, and then in the same sentence turn around and bash someone you don’t agree with? Talk about hypocrites, I’d say you stepped right into the role.


#5

Key words: vain repetition Since when would praying with Mary to Jesus be “vain” repetition? :slight_smile:


#6

The topic is Matthew 6. I think some of the televangelists fit Jesus’ words perfectly. I think praying the rosary does not fit Jesus words. I think anyone who says that cloistered nuns pray the rosary out of vanity is just plain goofy. :whacky:

I did not bash anyone. I simply relayed what sort of actions and people I am put in mind of when I read MT 6:7.

As the years go on in the apologetics game, I am more and more convinced that hardly anyone actually reads the bible. (Self-labelled “bible christians” very much included.)

Do yourself a favor—read the bible passage.


#7

NPS - you forgot to mention something else to NonDenom. Read the bible in its context, not just an isolate passage out of context.

Read Scripture as the CCC advises:
The senses of Scripture

115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: “All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal.”

117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.

  1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.

  2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.

  3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.

Great posts NPS

Stillkickin :thumbsup:


#8

Good reminders Still-K.

We all (myself included) need to read the bible as much as possible and we all (myself included) need to try to avoid the method of picking a passage out of context and using it to generalize about others.

My main focus regarding that subject in this thread is people simply saying “Jesus says no vain repetition–the rosary is obviously that” as yet another shorthand bullet to use against The Church.

The words “vain repetition” are two of many possible translations of the greek there, (many translations have “do not babble like the pagans”) and the focus of the passage is not on the repetition, but on the hypocrisy and the false public face some put on.

So to connect the rosary with the passage simply because of the repeated phrases used in the meditation/prayer seems disengenous and ignorant (in the “not-knowledgeable” way).

That kind of thing is often used to score cheap imaginary apologetic points. I think we all need to avoid such attitudes.

(yes, i’m heading to the mirror now to tell myself that)


#9

Understand the rosary and you will understand it’s not vain repetition.

As a Catholic for most of my life, I can testify from first-hand experience that the Rosary is rarely anything but vain repetition.

The monotonous chanting of a group Rosary only plays this out more, IMO.

The rosary is a meditation on the mysteries of Christ.

Which can be entirely done without the vain repetition.

As we look at the passage of Mt 6, we see that He is talking about hypocrites—those who stand on street corners and babble their prayers over and over in order to be seen as pious.

No.

Our Lord addressed the hypocrites in verse 5. In verse 7 He is now specifically addressing prayer that resembles the prayer of the pagans of His day: vain repetition.

Cloistered nuns glimpsed on television for the express purpose of leading others (mostly senior citizens and shut-ins) in prayer and meditation of Christ is about as far from vanity as one can get, friend.

Where you get vanity from, I don’t know.

Our Lord was specifically addressing the type of prayer as common in the pagan world: vain repetition.

It irks me when people use Mt 6 against the rosary. Actually reading the Word of God, as opposed to repeating the words “vain repetiton” seems the best remedy here.

I agree.

The context is in the text.

Reading that particular passage puts me in mind of the televangelists and their all-too-public and babblingly-long prayers which are often supplemented with crocodile tears and false emotion.

So you attack others for citing Matt 6 against some prayer among your own, but you have no issues with doing the same exact thing to others.

This needs to be noted by all.

The passage is not about being against structured prayer.
The passage is about being a hypocrite.

No.

It is about vain repetitions.

Our Lord even clarifies: “For they think that they will be heard for their many words”

Read the passage and see that what is condemned is babbling, showy prayer paraded about only to impress others.

He condemns the babbling, yes, but not showy prayer in that text. You must keep up with the flowing instruction of our Lord.

Ever notice that this passage is immediately followed by a structured prayer which we have been repeating now for 2000 years??? It’s called the Our Father.

It is not a structured prayer to be repeated verbatim. Our Lord confirms as such: “Pray then like this…”

Please note that Christ did not repeat the prayer after He prayed it once. The same cannot be said about the Rosary.

For anyone who doubts God’s acceptance of repetition—try reading Psalm 136.

The Psalm, by definition, is specifically a song.

Psalm 136 is not even a prayer.


#10

First of all I never gave my opinion on the subject.
Second, I have read the passage so do yourself a favor and not jump to conclusions.
Thirdly, yes you did bash someone. If there is one that is very apparent on these forums, it’s the double standard Roman Catholics have when it comes to peoples beliefs. When you give your opinion it’s all right but when someone who isn’t RC their just trying to start trouble or called a heretic.


#11

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.