The Sacrament of Confession revisited

As I have read these rules in this forum as a CHRISTIAN Catholic who attended 12 years of Catholic School and one who has thoroughly studied the Bible - I am sorrowed when I read all of these maddening precise man-made rules (Canon Law) - man made religious law keeps sinners and seekers from Our Lord - when you truly study the Bible over a lifetime - you begin to understand a great deal more than the CANONS OF MAN-MADE LAW - remember if it is man-made then it is also a Sinners-made law - the Jewish religious hierarchy had a great list of laws supposedly empowered by God to make such laws and condemn any man woman or child that did not follow that man-made law including a physical death sentence. Christ reviled Man-Made religious laws.

And before you quote me the famous but almost always misunderstood - “Whatever you bind on earth …” ask yourself this question:

Do you honestly believe that if a man falls to his knees in private and asks forgiveness from the Father through His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ and is truly sorry in his heart that the sin will not be forgiven until it is repeated before a member of the Catholic Clergy and then absolved through the Catholic Clergy - do you truly believe that Our Lord Jesus Christ needs an assist (like in basketball) ? Really? The all powerful, all forgiving Our Lord Jesus Christ needs another sinner to absolve the sins of one of His followers - a child of the FATHER - because I don’t. And having died twice - I think I speak on good authority. The Blood of Our Lord washed your sins away - they are not there - they are just not there - when you are brought back - you can still remember all of your sins - you don’t forget them but Our Lord and Our Father does forget and forgive without an assist- what an awakening that was.

In case you are wondering I have spoken to others who have been to a not so pleasant place and I will share with you his profound description:

" It was the darkest of dark, the coldest of cold and the loneliest of lonely."

When did the thief get baptized? You know - the one that was hanging on the cross next to Our Lord and Jesus said to him “…this day thou shalt be with ME in paradise.”

When exactly was that thief baptized?

I know some will be angry with me because I make you think - why you may even think I am a demon - but think think think Christian - when was the thief baptized?

Hello and welcome to CAF !

This is an old thread and one of the rules of CAF is not to bump old threads.
I would suggest if you would like to talk about the rules of confession that you start a new thread.

Take some time to read the “Rules of the Road” forum too, so you have an understand of what is expected here at CAF…

Again, hello and welcome! :slight_smile:

  1. As to what you asked above in bold: Of course not. That is absolutely ridiculous. He doesn’t need anything. He doesn’t need people to baptize for him, to preach for him, to proclaim his message for him, or anything of that regard. But he chooses to associate human beings with his redemption because he is God. The priest is not giving Jesus “an assist”, Jesus is working through him to grant forgiveness. And of course, Jesus does not deny forgiveness to those who don’t have access to this sacrament. Jesus himself gave his apostles the authority to forgive sins (John 20:23).

  2. That was just silly. You need to learn more about what the Church teaches, because it’s apparent you are lacking in knowledge on this regard

DISCUSSION FORUMS

Messages posted to threads should be on-topic. If you wish to discuss another topic, start a new thread.

To the lady who posted this - ok - I just went to your rules and it has to be on topic - it was about confession so it was on topic - and there was nothing in the rules that I read which said you couldn’t post to an old thread - furthermore - this thread came up at the top of a list on confession and the Catholic Church - it seems pretty new and relevant to a search engine.

To the gentleman who posted that I was not knowledgeable of the Catholic Canons - I may not know all the new changes (why are there new changes - just asking) - but 12 years of Catholic education with the Brothers of the Sacred Heart - I pretty much understand the teachings. Thanks for the ominous warning that I may be committing the mortal sin of Heresy - pretty judgmental of you - The Jewish religious leaders of Christ’s day accused Our Lord of the same sin - heresy - because he didn’t abide by the religious rules of men. I would say that would be wonderful company to stand and be counted with - the Lord Jesus Christ - pretty good company. I guess next you’ll accuse me of being a
Blasphemer. Get your Gavel, Judge.

And I guess what you referred to as silly was my question about when the thief was baptized? Well answer the question - where and when does it say that the thief was baptized of water - point me to that scriptural statement. Probably no need I am sure the judgmental people on this post will be feverishly working to have me removed - TRUTH CLARIFIES.

A major problem in the world - Pope Francis is aware of it - TOO MUCH CHURCHIANITY AND NOT ENOUGH CHRISTIANITY.
.

I note that our Apologetics mod has intervened to allow this discussion to proceed by making it a new thread of its own. The other was what…5 years dead?

BTW, if you wish to discuss baptism, then feel free to open a new thread here in Apologetics on it and we’ll explore the facts together.:thumbsup:

If you are a Catholic, (because I have never heard of a “Cheiatian Catholic”:confused:) then you appear to have been deceived by some of the typical errant anti-Catholic arguments that we hear all the time and have refuted for the last 500 years or so.

Let me just share with you the links to my own blog articles that will help clear this up for you.

[LIST]
*]“I Find No Sacraments In the Bible” he said.
*]Catholic Confession
*]Scriptures About Penance
[/LIST]

:shrug: Actually there is but it’s in the stickies.

A major problem in the world - Pope Francis is aware of it - TOO MUCH CHURCHIANITY AND NOT ENOUGH CHRISTIANITY…

Really? And where exactly has he said this?

We keep up with him all the time and have never seen something to that effect. (See Sticky: [Akin])

(Off to Mass…back in an hour or so…:signofcross:)

When I believe that I know everything, I am invariably wrong. Does this statement also apply to you?

Do you realize that Canon Law is not intended to be read or studied by the laity? It is written (and applies to) mainly to people involved in Catholic ministry. Yes, it’s all man-made rules, but nobody passes it off as doctrine. It’s stuff like what materials are suitable to make a chalice from, and where the Baptismal font ought to be located, and how many times a day a priest is allowed to say Mass. Large sections of Canon Law apply only to Bishops (for example, a Bishop may not perform an ordination at night except in an urgent situation). Laypeople are not affected by such rules, nor do they care about them.

Most laypeople have never read a single Cannon and they certainly don’t own a copy. I bought my copy at a Catholic bookstore, but it had to be special-ordered because most Catholic bookstores don’t stock them.

I think you’re misinformed about what Canon Law really is. FWIW. Canon Law (as we know it today) is brand-new, being less than 100 years old. The first Code of Canon Law was issued in 1917 (we are currently using the Second Edition, issued in 1983).

Most churches have man-made rules. Most protestant denominations won’t ordain somebody who does not have a theology degree. That would be a protestant example of a “Canon.”

For the OP: as Saint Paul rightly pointed out IN THE BIBLE, we are to take our Catholic community disputes to the Church, and not to pagan authorities. Thus, canon law serves to guide in many areas of Church legal life, but is not on the radar of the average believer.

I would guess that OP’s community has no such Pauline-described authority, and they rely on the pagan courts. As well, should OP’s communion survive to the age of 2,000, let us then examine how many rules and regs they have!

As well, we cannot and must not dismiss the guidance of the Holy Spirit in all such rule-making. After all, Matthias was chosen by what the OP might consider to be the “superstitious” act of casting lots. Thus, I must ask a rhetorical question: is OP in the wrong religion, or is his understanding merely lacking?

The Catholic Church has no “man-made religious laws” that “keep sinners and seekers from Our Lord.” All you’re stating here is your personal opinion and then judging Catholics based upon it. The Catholic Church has both man-made laws (such as what we call disciplines) and divinely revealed doctrines, but none of it acts as a barrier between God and people.

And before you quote me the famous but almost always misunderstood - “Whatever you bind on earth …”

With what authority do you claim that the Catholic interpretation of Matthew 16:19 is “misunderstood”? Why makes your personal interpretation of Matthew 16:19 the correct one that everyone has to adhere to or be guilty of concocting “maddening man-made rules”?

…ask yourself this question:

Do you honestly believe that if a man falls to his knees in private and asks forgiveness from the Father through His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ and is truly sorry in his heart that the sin will not be forgiven until it is repeated before a member of the Catholic Clergy and then absolved through the Catholic Clergy - do you truly believe that Our Lord Jesus Christ needs an assist (like in basketball) ? Really? The all powerful, all forgiving Our Lord Jesus Christ needs another sinner to absolve the sins of one of His followers - a child of the FATHER - because I don’t…

It’s not a question of what God needs to do, but how he chose to set things up. God initially applies savific grace through the sacrament of baptism, which is channeled through a minister who represents the Church. God likewise deals with post-baptismal sin in the form of a sacrament (Reconciliation) through a minister who represents the Church. The Church believes that there are also non-sacramental means by which a sinner can receive salvific grace, and I will address this topic in a bit when I answer your question about the Good Thief.

And as a side note, this is not just a historical Catholic teaching but one taught by all the various Eastern Orthodox Churches and all the various Oriental Orthodox Churches. So if this is a “man-made” rule then which of the many original apostolic Churches invented it, and how did it get all the other apostolic Churches spread out over three continents to go along?

And I will also point out that God knows our hearts better than we do, and humans can often mislead themselves through emotions. Exactly how does a sinner know that he is “truly sorry in his heart” for having sinned? Just because he feels badly? What if in the dark recesses of his heart he still relishes the sensual pleasure he derived from at least one of his sins, even if only a little bit? Can he be said to be “truly” sorry? One of the great things about the Sacrament of Reconciliation is that people do not have to gauge how sorry they are in order to receive the sacrament’s grace of mercy and forgiveness; they only need to be at least somewhat sorry (whatever is lacking in contrition is supplemented by the power of the Holy Spirit).

And having died twice - I think I speak on good authority. The Blood of Our Lord washed your sins away - they are not there - they are just not there - when you are brought back - you can still remember all of your sins - you don’t forget them but Our Lord and Our Father does forget and forgive without an assist- what an awakening that was.

Are you saying that your near-death experience gives you the power to correctly interpret Scripture and define doctrine for all Christians everywhere?

And I guess what you referred to as silly was my question about when the thief was baptized? Well answer the question - where and when does it say that the thief was baptized of water - point me to that scriptural statement.

In answer to your question I will make three points.

  1. The Good Thief may have already been baptized at some earlier point as this was a ministry the disciples had been providing for some time. Just because the Bible does not specifically state that it happened does not mean that it did not. I’m sure you’re aware that Catholics are not adherents to Sola Scriptura so why make requirements such as “point me to that scriptural statement”?

  2. The Good Thief may not have already been baptized. However, Jesus is not a minister of the sacraments, but their very source. He can baptize anyone however he wants. Nevertheless, humans are not allowed to presume to administer the sacraments in a manner other than the way God has revealed to the Church, and humans are not empowered by God to suddenly declare the sacraments as being unnecessary.

  3. The Good Thief may not have already been baptized but what happened to him on the cross may embody what the Catholic Church teaches about Baptism by Desire.

Probably no need I am sure the judgmental people on this post will be feverishly working to have me removed - TRUTH CLARIFIES.

The only reason people are banned from CAF is for violating forum policies. There are many CAF members who openly challenge Catholic teachings and have been active in these forums for years.

I do hope that facts will stand up in the face of the all-conquering power of personal opinion…

I beg to differ. Our Moderator (Michael Francis) has spun your post off into a new thread, as the legendary “Church Militant” has noted (he used to have a better avatar - don’t think less of him just because his current avatar looks like a smiling pig wearing a campaign helmet).

MF did this on your behalf to preserve your thread (and not to remove you or anything you have said) in accordance with the policy of this Forum.

:popcorn:

freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink033.gif freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink007.gif

Merry Christmas!

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.