The Series "Homeland", What are you a catholic?

My first post, so not sure if this is the place but... I was just watching the series Homeland and I couldn't beleive a line the actor Mandy Potampkin was scripted, he was questioning a Muslem guard who had tortured an American POW and he said to him," So your a holy man but you torture people, what are you, a CATHOLIC.' Wow try saying something about any other religion on TV like that and there would be outrage, but you can always knock down the catholics without fear of reproach.
Joe

Well, we kinda set ourselves up for that one. What, with the torture and all… you gotta admit. :shrug:

Thanks for that post, I havent heard of this series before but thanks to your post Ill make sure not to watch.

We can’t just let people mock our religion like that.

Furthermore, there is a profound difference between the violence that Muslims perpetrate, and the Inquisition way back when.

I would encourage you to read some threads on here on the Inquisition. Because when you look at the historical facts about the Inquisition, you’ll see that our society basically just buys into a myth that paints the whole thing with one broad brush of “the Inquisition killed and tortured people… look how bad religion can be when it gets its way”.

This is a good thread titled "How should Catholics view the Inquisition. Hope it helps.:thumbsup:.

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=609418

Prisoners often begged to be tried by the Church rather than the civil authorities because the Church was more lenient. They had a not so bad system for a while, considering the times and the laws. It was when the Spanish took over the Inquisition that things got ugly.

No, it doesn’t help. I am familiar with historical methodology, of that I assure you. People can make clever historical arguments for holocaust denial, so that others do so for the inquisition and other assorted atrocities in the Church’s history is far from surprising.

I know of only one human being who was without sin.

People can make clever historical arguments for holocaust denial, so that others do so for the inquisition and other assorted atrocities in the Church’s history is far from surprising.

And your post seems to be working on the principle of throwing sufficient mud ensures some will stick. Your implicit false comparisions there and implicit comparision of those who would wish to take a more nuanced look at the Inquistions and why they occurred and in what context with holocaust denial is fairly unpleasant. No-one for a moment denies the Inquistions used methods that were unpleasant and vile at times but dragging in the the Nazi’s and the Final Solution is simply an instance of Godwin’s Law. Also considering there are bound to be a number of Catholics here who had family members who suffered in WW2 it’s thoughtless.

I’m surprised Mandy Pantinkin would concede to say such a line. Disappointing, to say the least.

Of course millions of Catholics lost their lives in WW2, 3 million in Poland alone.

The Inquisition was bad, but let’s face it, it was nowhere near as bad as secular courts and nowhere near as bad as other religions. Also it did not occur everywhere. There were many Catholic countries which did not have the Inquisition. Much of the anti-Inquisition hysteria are fairy tales or Protestant or anti-Spanish propaganda, unlike the recent accounts of Holocaust and the Death Camp at Oswiecim (Auschwitz). Secondly the world was different then and Inquisition was more civilised in the use of torture then its contemporary courts. Torture was the scientific way of arriving at confessions. It would be like criticising the Church now for using cell phones and spreading brain cancer (if such a finding were true) or for turning pedophile priests to the police to let them be sent to prison to be murdered there, when in 20 years time pedophilia is decriminalised (assuming this). Stability also had to maintained, since religion had a major impact on the population. Wrong ideas could lead to destabilisation of society and bloodshed. One should put everything in historical context.

Damien Lewis is the main character in “Homeland” and I was really interested in watching this series. Lewis was is the TV series “Life” until it was cancelled.

Unfortunately, “Homeland” has chosen to desperately cling to the soft porn format in order to interest viewers each week (full frontal nudity, vivid displays of sexual acts, etc.)

It’s disgraceful & disgusting in our day and age, that the producers have chosen that path. The actions of the producers remind me of the similar programming in “Glee”.

Culture shock the audience into watching each week.

Yuck! Well, I won’t bother with this in that case. I was MORTIFIED watching “Spartacus” with my husband. :eek:

[quote="Barbkw, post:10, topic:261245"]
Damien Lewis is the main character in "Homeland" and I was really interested in watching this series. Lewis was is the TV series "Life" until it was cancelled.

Unfortunately, "Homeland" has chosen to desperately cling to the soft porn format in order to interest viewers each week (full frontal nudity, vivid displays of sexual acts, etc.)

It's disgraceful & disgusting in our day and age, that the producers have chosen that path. The actions of the producers remind me of the similar programming in "Glee".

Culture shock the audience into watching each week.

[/quote]

Thanks to Barb also,another reason not to bother with this show.

No offense, but could I ask in what capacity you know Jesus Christ? IE: what is your religion? You don’t have any listed on your profile.

I really am sorry that link doesn’t help. Obviously you have some view of what the Inquisition was… would you mind sharing it? It would be enlightening to me, to hear what you think the Inquisition did.

Because, when only 2% of the people tried by the Inquisition were put to death, I find it really out of place for that Inquisition to be compared to the Holocaust… which had a much higher death rate. Considering that only 6,000 Jews were left alive in Poland, and Poland had a very large Jewish population (at least 1 million strong).

That thread I referenced had sources showing that of around 100,000 people tried by the Spanish Inquisition only between 2,000 and 3,000 were killed.

So, although those figures might not be accurate, I am confident of one thing: that JharekCarnelian is certainly right when he says that your post is a proof of Godwin’s law.

None taken.

I’m Catholic.

I really am sorry that link doesn’t help. Obviously you have some view of what the Inquisition was… would you mind sharing it? It would be enlightening to me, to hear what you think the Inquisition did.

Because, when only 2% of the people tried by the Inquisition were put to death, I find it really out of place for that Inquisition to be compared to the Holocaust… which had a much higher death rate. Considering that only 6,000 Jews were left alive in Poland, and Poland had a very large Jewish population (at least 1 million strong).

That thread I referenced had sources showing that of around 100,000 people tried by the Spanish Inquisition only between 2,000 and 3,000 were killed.

So, although those figures might not be accurate, I am confident of one thing: that JharekCarnelian is certainly right when he says that your post is a proof of Godwin’s law.

I wasn’t comparing the Holocaust to the Inquisition. In fact, though I do hold that torture occurred during the Inquisition and should be denounced, I was almost contrasting the two in a way.

Let me try to be more clear this time. I’m going to re-phrase my whole statement. Same meaning, different words.

  1. The Holocaust represents one of the clearest and most well-evidenced portraits of brutality in human history.

  2. Nevertheless, creative (yet misleading) arguments have been constructed to minimize or even reject commonly held conclusions about the Holocaust. If you’re not well-read in history and not versed in historical methodology then these arguments can actually be quite persuasive.

  3. By contrast, even the most bitter anti-Catholics do not claim that the Inquisition was anywhere near as cruel as the Holocaust.

  4. Therefore, should it be surprising that creative (yet misleading) arguments can be constructed by pro-Catholics to deny the Inquisition? It is, after all, an event much smaller in size, much gentler and much further removed from our present day.

  5. I should think not. Thus, I’m not going to reach my conclusions on pro-Catholic sources alone. There was torture and barbarity during the inquisition.

Sorry that wasn’t clear.

[quote="VeritasLuxMea, post:14, topic:261245"]
... There was torture and barbarity during the inquisition.
.

[/quote]

There was torture and barbarity during the time of Christ's crucifixion, too. Sure, there was torture and barbarity during the inquisition, during the holocaust. There is torture in the name of God today in other lands and there will be torture and barbarity in the future. It's a result of being human. None of it is right. None of it can be excused. Yes, there are groups who try to erase it from history but that will not prevail. Such is the way of man. I'd like to think we learn from the past, but the older I get the more disappointed I become about that.

As for this Homeland show, I too, am disappointed Mandy went along with it, but hey, it's his job. Not surprised a writer put those words in the script, though. Sorry to hear the show also bends to that soft porn, frontal nudity trend that seems to be taking hold. Definitely annoying.

I don't think you're giving much credit to Homeland. That was one line in a 13 hour scripted series that depicts a POW coming home from Iraq. There are references to terrorism, suicide bombs, Muslim vengeance plots, everything. The show doesn't try to take sides, but tries to humanize both.

It is entertaining and well worth your time. Do not forget that characters in shows represent people in real life, and it's not their goal to show an idealized version of reality. The line of dialogue in question, while probably existing as a dig from the writers on Catholics, should not be the sole reason to watch a television show.

Full frontal nudity, sexual acts, aren’t well worth a Christian’s time. :twocents:

What are you a Hollyweird writer?

[quote="Magister102, post:18, topic:261245"]
I don't judge a show based on how graphic the sex scenes are. To do so is to diminish the overall effort of the writers and the actors.

[/quote]

Well that just says it all right there.

Again, this is the same problem as before. You took one thing I said and decided that was the thing to attack. Just as someone took one part of a show, removed it from the whole, and decided the product was poor and immoral.

This is very dangerous to do to a tv show, a book, a movie, a Church document, anything. In fact, it’s exactly the same as quoting a Bible verse and saying “this is what the entire Bible and the Church believe and teach.”

You cannot take material out of context.

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