The Spanish Inquisition...


#1

I would like to hear Roman Catholic opinion on the involvement of the Roman Catholic Church in the Spanish Inquisition.

~mango~


#2

Here’s a good primer:

crisismagazine.com/october2003/madden.htm

There was recently an unprecedented study of the Spanish inquistion in particular, perhaps someone can provide a link to some of those materials.


#3

Probably one of the best books on the Spanish Inquisition is written by a Jewish gentleman named Henry Kamen. His treatment of the inquisition is incredibly objective. The church is portayed quite positively in his book - remember the Spanish Inquisition dealt with Catholics and not Jews and witches as some falslely assume. It is also important to remember that those times were different than ours and it is erroneous to judge a given practice of an era by contemporary standards. I like the fact that Mr Kamen is Jewish and it deflects a lot of criticism of his scholarship as being written by a Catholic to cover up or glorify things done by Catholics.
:thumbsup:


#4

[quote=deaconswife]Probably one of the best books on the Spanish Inquisition is written by a Jewish gentleman named Henry Kamen. His treatment of the inquisition is incredibly objective. The church is portayed quite positively in his book - remember the Spanish Inquisition dealt with Catholics and not Jews and witches as some falslely assume. It is also important to remember that those times were different than ours and it is erroneous to judge a given practice of an era by contemporary standards. I like the fact that Mr Kamen is Jewish and it deflects a lot of criticism of his scholarship as being written by a Catholic to cover up or glorify things done by Catholics.
:thumbsup:
[/quote]

I just read an encyclopedia article that affirmed what you said about the witches, but not about Jews. It also said that some Protestants were targeted.

~mango~


#5

The type of society we live in is much different than during the times of the Spanish Inquisition. Those who were Jews and retained the practice of their religion were not seen as targets of the inquisition; there were other strictures that they were forced live under such as where they could live in a particular city. The concern of the inquisitors had to do with those who converted but had not truly converted. These would be people who professed to be Catholic but continued to practice their original religion. The reason people would do this is to advance themselves in either society or government. People who did that were seen as subversives to the state. The idea that heresy was seen as revolutionary and anti-state is a concept that is difficult for 21st century Americans to comprehend.
:blessyou:


#6

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!


#7

[quote=mango_2003]I just read an encyclopedia article that affirmed what you said about the witches, but not about Jews. It also said that some Protestants were targeted.

~mango~
[/quote]

Uhh…this is a problem, since the main activity of the Spanish Inquisition was about 70-80 years before the Protestant Reformation.

For a good article about this subject here is a link right on this website:

catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp


#8

[quote=hermit]Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
[/quote]

ROFL! You beat me to it! :smiley:


#9

The main thing to keep in mind about the church organized inquisitions*** is that they were set up to prevent atrocities and keep heresy-hunting to some semblance of order.

Heresy was a considered a capital crime by the state. The inquisition took over to keep such proceedings from becoming, well…, a witch-hunt.

The Spanish Inquisition was somewhat of an exception in that the state still retained control and would tend to ignore papal scolding.

Lots of articles here: catholiceducation.org/links/search.cgi?query=inquisition

*** “Inquisition” refers to the accepted judicial process used in the middle ages. Almost all courts of the time were “inquisitions.”


#10

[quote=mango_2003]I would like to hear Roman Catholic opinion on the involvement of the Roman Catholic Church in the Spanish Inquisition.

~mango~
[/quote]

What I remember of the Spanish Inquisition from School (20 years ago) was that it was established, not by the Church, but by King Ferdinand who used it to purge the nobility of people he considerd dissidents. The Charges of Heresy or of being a “secret” Jew were in those cases simply false. Like Chicago Politics. They are all crooks but if one angers the wrong crook next thing one knows is they are on the News being charged with “corruption”. LOL a Political leader crying “corruption!!” Thats the pot calling the kettle black.

Things really havent changed that much. New tools, same motives.


#11

I always thought that CCC #2298 was a veiled reference to this kind of thing.

In times past, cruel practices were commonly used by legitimate governments to maintain law and order, often without protest from the Pastors of the Church, who themselves adopted in their own tribunals the prescriptions of Roman law concerning torture. Regrettable as these facts are, the Church always taught the duty of clemency and mercy. She forbade clerics to shed blood. In recent times it has become evident that these cruel practices were neither necessary for public order, nor in conformity with the legitimate rights of the human person. On the contrary, these practices led to ones even more degrading. It is necessary to work for their abolition. We must pray for the victims and their tormentors.


#12

[quote=mango_2003]I just read an encyclopedia article that affirmed what you said about the witches, but not about Jews. It also said that some Protestants were targeted.

~mango~
[/quote]

Protestants could nat have been targetted, there were none at the time and place of this particular Inquisition.


#13

[quote=Apologia100]Protestants could nat have been targetted, there were none at the time and place of this particular Inquisition.
[/quote]

As I understand it, the Spanish Inquisition, as an institution lasted into the 1700’s, and there were certainly Protestants around at that time. I may be wrong, but the “targeting” of Protestants was more an attempt to keep Protestantism from spreading into Spain…and it did a good job of it, much like the Inquisition is credited with preventing “witch” trials in the countries in which it operated. In Catholic countries, witch burnings were virtually unheard of, as compared to the estimated 60,000 people (mostly women) burned as witches in Protestant countries, including the Salem witch trials.

I’m not trying to indict Protestants, but merely show that the type of “justice” attributed to the Spanish Inquisition was really the norm of the day and was practiced by Catholic and Protestents alike.


#14

[quote=mtr01] In Catholic countries, witch burnings were virtually unheard of,
[/quote]

Not so, amigo. See catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0056.html

The Spanish Road stretching from Italy to the Netherlands was also a “witch-road.” The Catholic-ruled Spanish Netherlands (today’s Belgium) saw far worse persecutions than the Protestant-ruled United Provinces of the Netherlands, which had stopped burning convicted witches by 1600. There were early panics in the German cities of Brandenburg and Mecklenburg, as well as in Lorraine, France, and parts of Switzerland and Scotland. The Rhineland and Southwest Germany suffered severe outbreaks, with German ecclesiastical territories hit hardest. Three-quarters of all witchcraft trials took place in the Catholic-ruled territories of the Holy Roman Empire. But Catholic Portugal, Castile and Spanish-ruled Italy, and the Orthodox lands of Eastern Europe saw virtually none. The panic in Salem, Massachussetts, was as bad as anything in England, but there seem to have !been no executions in the Latin colonies of the New World.

Certainly more “witches” died at the hands of Protestants, but Catholics had their share.


#15

[quote=Fidelis]Uhh…this is a problem, since the main activity of the Spanish Inquisition was about 70-80 years before the Protestant Reformation.

For a good article about this subject here is a link right on this website:

catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp
[/quote]

Hey, Fidelis…

Loved your quote on that post :thumbsup: (Gandalf)


#16

[quote=Apologia100]Protestants could nat have been targetted, there were none at the time and place of this particular Inquisition.
[/quote]

Technically you’re right.

But…there were forms of Protestantism that held similiar beliefs to Luther prior to the Reformation.

~mango~


#17

[quote=Fidelis]Uhh…this is a problem, since the main activity of the Spanish Inquisition was about 70-80 years before the Protestant Reformation.

For a good article about this subject here is a link right on this website:

catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp
[/quote]

Regarding the Reformation point…see my above post in response to another poster.

In regards to activity of the Spanish Inquisition…although you might be right about the main activity, the Inquisition itself went into the 19th Century.

~mango~


#18

[quote=mango_2003]I would like to hear Roman Catholic opinion on the involvement of the Roman Catholic Church in the Spanish Inquisition.

~mango~
[/quote]

It’s overrated. Lasted 450 years and fewer people died in it than did in the American Civil War.

And let’s not forget that when the Inquisition started, Spain had just been under the heavy Islamic influence for quite some time.


#19

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise…surprise and fear…fear and surprise… Our two weapons are fear and surprise…and ruthless efficiency… Our three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency…and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope… Our four…no… Amongst our weapons… Amongst our weaponry…are such elements as fear, surprise… I’ll come in again.


#20

Besides the aqueduct, sanitation and roads, what have the Romans ever done for us??

(I know, wrong one!)


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