The Three Secrets of Our Lady of Fatima


#1

Posting this especially for Ed Rand or anyone else who is interested.

Originally Posted by Ed Rand
I’m not that familiar with the predictions. It’s been something I’ve wanted to look at for some time. However, the only thing you’ve said she said was that Russia wasn’t finished and that Russia would re-emerge or some sort of thing (1917). Anyway, perhaps you should post the relevent passages of her revelations and start a new thread. You could lead us to it. I would be truly interested.

Here are the Three messages that “Our Lady Of Fatima” 1917 revealed to the three seers of Portugal. There was also 70,000 witnesses of the Miracle of Sun, so that the unbelievers would be believe that Our Mother appeared to the three seers.

The first part of the secret is the vision of hell.

Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to Heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.

We then looked up at Our Lady, who said to us so kindly and so sadly:

This is the second part of the secret.

“You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world”.

The third part of the secret has not been revealed to the world in it’s “entirety” by the Pope and the Vatican. There are still parts missing. See below.

In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved etc.
“the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him …”


#2

Why is this in scripture? Doesn’t fit better someplace else


#3

Thanks Julia,

I wasn’t sure where to post it.

Maybe a “Forum Supporter” can move it to where it belongs for me please.


#4

Is this the only reference to Russia in the prophecies? Also, I wonder what the missing “confidential” parts are about? I wonder if Our Lady instructed the Vatican not to reveal them. There must be some good reason. I can’t imagine that the Church would keep something from us that was supposed to be released. Thanks for the post!

Also, did you mean Pious XII?


#5






In the Fatima revelations, there are only two countries meantioned; Russia and Portugal.

There is a whole controversy about the third message of Fatima. The Vatican has revealed the whole secret:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

Except we do have traditionalists who believe that there is part of the secret unrevealed. The Vatican says all is revealed…and I sit on the fence with this one. I believe the truth lies in the middle of this great debate.


Fact#4. Finally, this promise to disclose the Secret immediately after the death of Sister Lucy or in any case, “in 1960 at the latest”, surely corresponds to a request by the Virgin Mary Herself. In fact, when in 1946, Canon Barthas asked the seer why it would be necessary to wait until 1960, Sister Lucy replied to him in the presence of Bishop da Silva, "Because the Blessed Virgin wishes it so."
prayrosary.com/fatima/third.php3


#6

Here is the text of the third secret (in this issue, I am more of the opinion that “innocent until proven guilty;” that is, unless someone provides really concrete evidence (admittedly, my criteria can be quite ‘high’) that this is not the true third secret, I will follow the official position and take this one as true. I will say no more.

J.M.J.

The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fatima, on 13 July 1917.

I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.

After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendor that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!’ And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it’ a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the holy father.’

Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the holy father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions.

Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.

Tuy-3-1-1944


#7

From Shoshana’a link at the Vatican:

Before giving the sealed envelope containing the third part of the “secret” to the then Bishop of Leiria-Fatima, Sister Lucia wrote on the outside envelope that it could be opened only after 1960, either by the Patriarch of Lisbon or the Bishop of Leiria. Archbishop Bertone therefore asked: “Why only after 1960? Was it Our Lady who fixed that date?” Sister Lucia replied: “It was not Our Lady. I fixed the date because I had the intuition that before 1960 it would not be understood, but that only later would it be understood. Now it can be better understood. I wrote down what I saw; however it was not for me to interpret it, but for the Pope.

I think other websites that distort the official document at the Vatican are pushing an agenda of their own. May I ask that the reader discount entirely this false account posted earlier in this thread.

[quote=Shoshana]Fact#4. Finally, this promise to disclose the Secret immediately after the death of Sister Lucy or in any case, “in 1960 at the latest”, surely corresponds to a request by the Virgin Mary Herself. In fact, when in 1946, Canon Barthas asked the seer why it would be necessary to wait until 1960, Sister Lucy replied to him in the presence of Bishop da Silva, “Because the Blessed Virgin wishes it so.”
[/quote]

Finally, the Vatican document concludes with this paragraph:

And so we come to the final question: What is the meaning of the “secret” of Fatima as a whole (in its three parts)? What does it say to us? First of all we must affirm with Cardinal Sodano: “… the events to which the third part of the ‘secret’ of Fatima refers now seem part of the past”. Insofar as individual events are described, they belong to the past. Those who expected exciting apocalyptic revelations about the end of the world or the future course of history are bound to be disappointed. Fatima does not satisfy our curiosity in this way, just as Christian faith in general cannot be reduced to an object of mere curiosity. What remains was already evident when we began our reflections on the text of the “secret”: the exhortation to prayer as the path of “salvation for souls” and, likewise, the summons to penance and conversion.


#8






i have read many, many books prior to the Vatican statement, and books not bought from anyone with an agenda says that Lucia could not obey the Bishop right away and needed encouragement from Our Lady to do so. She was afraid to do so…and the 1060 was never written as coming from her at all…

Si I sit on the fence here…


#9






I do not believe that the words may be apocalyptic but rather a great apostasy as we are witnessing just the beginning of it in many, many parishes.


#10

i have read many, many books prior to the Vatican statement, and books not bought from anyone with an agenda says that Lucia could not obey the Bishop right away and needed encouragement from Our Lady to do so. She was afraid to do so…and the 1960 was never written as coming from her at all…
So I sit on the fence here…

That may be true of your viewpoint, Shoshana, but I am disturbed that posting all of these links will simply put others on the fence along with you. That need not happen, if we submit to the teaching of the Church, who I believe has done a much more thorough examination prior to issuing the statement on Fatima. They may have even read some of your books. But the bottom line is the solemn witness of Sr. Lucia to the Pope, which various book authors were not privy to, and the authentic correspondence within that document showing the handwriting belongs to Lucia.

Too many pro-Fatima enthusiasts appear on these fora with all kinds of messages indicating that there is a hidden truth that has not been revealed with regard to the third secret. We ought not to delve into any more than what the Church has proclaimed, or else we are going to send a false message and create anxiety in the hearts of the faithful. With the Church having given the public declaration that the Fatima messages now belong to the past, I think it would be prudent to listen and obey. :wink:


#11

It has been my experience that many who are pushing the conspiracy theory regarding the Third Secret are those who believe that Fatima is some how special and should be considered part of the De Fide of the Faith.

No faithful Catholic is required to believe in any of the private revelations. They add nothing to the deposit of faith.

St John of the Cross has this to say about private revelations in The Ascent of Mount Carmel (Book 2, Chapter 22, paragraph 5);

  1. Those who now desire to question God or receive some vision or revelation are guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him by not fixing their eyes entirely on Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.

God could answer as follows: If I have already told you all things in my Word, my Son, and if I have no other word, what answer or revelation can I now make that would surpass this? Fasten your eyes on him alone because in him I have spoken and revealed all and in him you will discover even more than you ask for and desire. You are making an appeal for locutions and revelations that are incomplete, but if you turn your eyes to him you will find them complete. For he is my entire locution and response, vision and revelation, which I have already spoken, answered, manifested, and revealed to you by giving him to you as a brother, companion, master ransom, and reward. On that day when I descended on him with my Spirit on Mount Tabor proclaiming: *This is my beloved Son in whom I am well please, hear him *[Mt. 17:5], I gave up these methods of answering and teaching and presented them to him. Hear him because I have no more faith to reveal or truths to manifest. If I spoke before, it was to promise Christ. If they question me, their inquiries were related to their petitions and longings for Christ in whom they were to obtain every good, as in now explained in all doctrine of the evangelists and apostles. But now those who might ask me in that way and desire that I speak and reveal something to them would somehow be requesting Christ again and more faith, yet they would be failing in faith because it has already been given in Christ. Accordingly, they would offend my beloved Son deeply because they would not merely be failing him in faith, but obliging him to become incarnate and undergo his life and death again. You will not find anything to ask or desire of me though revelations and visions. Behold him well, for in him you will uncover all of these already made and given, and many more.

Now understand that this really just goes for those who are searching for more revelations.


#12






I do not think I am being disobedient. Deliberating is not being disobedient. I just want to remain opne minded to this whole thing…although not obsessed with it. I am not pro-conspiracy at all as i believe that would be disobedient. I am just reporting in All of the books that I have read that have not belonged to Fr gruner’s site or any other traditionalist site. I stay away from that and just drawing my own conclusions…

That is all. Mary would want me to remain a faithful Catholic who loves her Son through the Church…which I do. In the end, it truly does not matter. But deliberating is part of all of these fora, no? :shrug:


#13







#14

Mary would want me to remain a faithful Catholic who loves her Son through the Church…which I do. In the end, it truly does not matter. But deliberating is part of all of these fora, no?

Hi again, Shoshana,

Deliberating is part of these fora, but this is not a debatable issue because it has received official proclamation from the Holy See saying that the events of Fatima have passed. What is there to debate, except for one’s private inclination to disagree with the Church’s statement? You are free to hold your opinion privately, but I think it is harmful to the faithful to encourage others to believe as you do, especially when it is not held by the Church, to whom we do give our submission and assent.

I did not say ‘you’ were disobedient. My words were: “I think it would be prudent to listen and obey.” By that I mean, render obedient assent to what She has deemed to be the truth about the Fatima messages. To question Her teaching implies that one disagrees with it and holds private reasons to the contrary. There is no reason for further questioning whenever Rome has spoken. It should leave our hearts in peace.

For the record, there is nothing to prevent us from living the message of Our Blessed Mother by praying her rosary and doing penance.


#15

Hi ! :slight_smile:

Once again, we must be very discerning as to what sources on Fatima we are reading! Many dissenting sources try to proclaim that the third part of the secret that Our Lady confided to the children was meant for our nosey meddling minds and , like curious tabloid readers, demand to know it! If you read the true Memoirs of Sister Lucia, and if you take time to access the original documents, you discover that Our Lady never intended that. According to Sister Lucia, the third part of the secret was meant for the Pope and it was up to him to decide if he wished to reveal it and when.

Before giving the sealed envelope containing the third part of the secret to the Bishop, Sister Lucia wrote on the outside of the envelope that it could be opened only after 1960, either by the Patriarch of Lisbon or the Bishop of Leiria. Archbishop Bertone asked: ***“Why only after 1960? Was it Our Lady who fixed that date?” *** Sister Lucia replied: ***“It was not Our Lady. I fixed the date because I had the intuition that before 1960 it would not be understood, but that only later would it be understood. Now it can be better understood. I wrote down what I saw; however it was not for me to interpret it, but for the Pope.” **** Sister Lucia must have known! She was the one entrusted by Heaven with the secret.

We should have trusted the judgment of our Holy Father, but instead we still demand to know… at the expense of putting in question the image of God’s Vicar on Earth, John Paul II.

Deliberating may not be being disobedient, but must be very careful not to take our “right to deliberate” to the point of the Pharisees. It got them into trouble! They ended up questionning the integrity of Our Lord, we might end up questionning the integrity of his Vicar! :eek:

To Jesus Through Mary :thumbsup:

Edward Henry

  • "The Message of Fátima,” Document. Archbishop Tarcicso Bertone, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. July. 2000

#16

I have to disagree that to all who believe that the third secret has been revealed in it’s entirety.

There are too many loop holes, unanswered questions and facts proving that the Third Secret in it’s entirety has not been revealed to the Catholic Faith.

I respect our Holy See.
I say three hail Mary’s for him everyday for the entirety of the whole truth of the third secret and for the true Consecration of Russia.

Even Mother Angilca agrees that the Third Secret has not been revealed in it’s entirety.

Mother Angelica speaking on EWTN show.

"No, something isn’t right here. And now we find that Mother Angelica is one of those millions of Catholics who agrees that things just don’t add up. When asked if she believes we were given the whole Secret last June, Mother Angelica said this on her live television show of May 16, 2001:
As for the Secret, well I happen to be one of those individuals who thinks we didn’t get the whole thing. I told ya! I mean, you have the right to your own opinion, don’t you, Father? There, you know, that’s my opinion. Because I think it’s scary. And I don’t think the Holy See is going to say something that does not happen, that might happen. And then what does it do if it doesn’t happen? I mean the Holy See cannot afford to make prophecies, because. I know, —I don’t know—my funeral . . . It’s not me, so don’t look at me . . . Something’s gonna happen soon. It could be twenty years before it happens. So to God “soon” could be a thousand years. We don’t know that. "

Why do you think she was booted off her own show that she herself created?

Please don’t tell me she fell sick and that is why she is no longer on the show.

fatimaperspectives.com/ts/perspective49.asp


#17

Nice2000,

Apparently you believe your mission is to [LIST]
*]create doubt in the minds of the readers toward the authority and veracity of the Magisterium
*]elevate Mother Angelica’s opinion and render more authenticity to her than to the Church
*]heighten anxiety with the conspiracy theory
*]honor your private opinion above that of the Church
[/LIST]

Well, now. Aren’t thee a good Catholic? :rolleyes: As was said earlier, if you wish to hold this opinion privately, why is it necessary to publish it in opposition to the proclamation of the Church? Do you really think we should put our faith in your anti-Church views? What do you expect to accomplish?


#18

Facts, please.

I respect our Holy See.
I say three hail Mary’s for him everyday for the entirety of the whole truth of the third secret and for the true Consecration of Russia.

Even Mother Angilca agrees that the Third Secret has not been revealed in it’s entirety.

Mother Angelica speaking on EWTN show.

"No, something isn’t right here. And now we find that Mother Angelica is one of those millions of Catholics who agrees that things just don’t add up. When asked if she believes we were given the whole Secret last June, Mother Angelica said this on her live television show of May 16, 2001:
As for the Secret, well I happen to be one of those individuals who thinks we didn’t get the whole thing. I told ya! I mean, you have the right to your own opinion, don’t you, Father? There, you know, that’s my opinion. Because I think it’s scary. And I don’t think the Holy See is going to say something that does not happen, that might happen. And then what does it do if it doesn’t happen? I mean the Holy See cannot afford to make prophecies, because. I know, —I don’t know—my funeral . . . It’s not me, so don’t look at me . . . Something’s gonna happen soon. It could be twenty years before it happens. So to God “soon” could be a thousand years. We don’t know that. "

Why do you think she was booted off her own show that she herself created?

Please don’t tell me she fell sick and that is why she is no longer on the show.

fatimaperspectives.com/ts/perspective49.asp

As much as I respect Mother Angelica, if she truly does believe the things you say, then I beg to differ with her. She may be a good and holy person, but that does not mean we should treat all that she says as infallible or Gospel truth.

If she or you believes the Third Secret was not fully revealed, then that’s her or your opinion and you’re both free to believe in it; I however will believe otherwise because I believe otherwise. That’s the reason God gave us free will, isn’t it?


#19

[quote=Message of Fatima, Holy See]Archbishop Bertone, accompanied by the Bishop of Leiria, His Excellency Bishop Serafim de Sousa Ferreira e Silva, will come in my name to ask certain questions about the interpretation of “the third part of the secret”.

Sister Maria Lucia, you may speak openly and candidly to Archbishop Bertone, who will report your answers directly to me.
[/quote]

Last year, Pope Benedict sent a letter to Cardinal Bertone on the occasion of his authoring the book, The Last Seer of Fatima. His Holiness says in the letter:

It was time for illumination, not only so that the message could be known by all, but also so that the truth could be revealed amid the confused apocalyptic interpretations and speculation that were circulating in the Church, disturbing the faithful rather than inviting them to prayer and penance.

The conversations between the seer, the last survivor of the three little shepherds, and you as the Bishop sent by the Pope, were not only an important ascertainment of the truthfulness of the events but also an opportunity for you to become acquainted with Sr Lucia’s transparent soul and her heartfelt intelligence typical of her femininity, which had been translated into a strong Christian faith. In addition, through the experiences of this humble Sister, the role of the Virgin Mary shines forth, who gives Christians a motherly hand in the trials and tribulations of life.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070222_present-bertone_en.html

To whomever believes the Church was deceitful in withholding information and presenting an untruth, or that Sr. Lucia lied or misrepresented the Virgin’s words, let them be …


#20

I am not trying to create doubt in anyone.

The truth is the truth.

“Jesus” and “Our Lady” of Fatima does not lie.

You can do the research yourself.

The consecration of Russia has not been completed as requested by Our Lady and the entirety of the full secret has not been revealed.

If Russia was truely consecrated as you say, then why is this country continuing to spread her errors throughout the world?

True peace comes from God.

I stand firm in what I believe.


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