The Truth about God


#1

God is pure Spirit. God is so perfect that he doesn’t have to exist. If God were to exist, he would not be perfect because that which exists becomes imperfect in the way that it needs to manifest itself. Perfection can never manifest itself because if it did we would be able to look at God from different perspectives; as one man’s God is another man’s devil.
Perfection should, to be if it is perfect, transcend and surpass the uttermost boundaries of reason; and what is beyond the capabilities of any beings reason; but that which doesn’t exist; therefore God is so perfect that he doesn’t have to exist. This is beyond any being’s comprehension because no being can grasp non-existence.
In Spirit, we draw from concept and experience to manifest the reason that suggests God exists; however, no one can truly know or grasp the perfection of God because we, if we were to assume God is perfect then we must transcend and surpass the uttermost boundaries of reason to that which doesn’t exist.
God only is and acts within existing beings and men.
Whoever comes across this stone shall stumble. But whoever this stone falls upon shall be as dust.


#2

God only IS and exists…

Then He does exist, within us. We are not above reason and we are imperfect. Therefore, by your reasoning, God cannot exist within us. Also, your use of IS implies being. Since you say God doesn’t exist within the confines of reason, then God isn’t IS.


#3

No, I said God only exists and acts within existing beings and men.
Spirit is what drives life. From Spirit we draw our concepts and experiences. If Spirit were to actually exist, then, in a God, that God would be perfect in the eyes of all beings. But since there is a Heaven and a Hell, God is not perfect in the eyes of all beings and men; for how does one justify Hell and damnation?
Therefore, any God who claims to be God is only drawing from the Spirit, from concept and experience–to rationalize existence.


#4

So your standard of perfection is apparently that perfection need not ever be manifest, (or, seemingly, must never manifest the way you seem to put it) and that all must agree it’s perfection? Sorry, that’s letting man define perfection. God defines perfection. Just because you may not agree on that definition of perfection or may not like it, it will change nothing. God very much exists objectively and independent of mankind, and He is very much perfect objectively and independent of mankind’s opinions. It’s a clever play on words you have, but it does nothing to weaken belief in God’s real and objective existence.


#5

Are you a gnostic? It seems like you are saying that spirit is good and matter is evil. Is this what you believe? This is the heresy of docetism. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docetism


#6

God if God is perfect needs not to manifest itself, why? because one must consider if God were to actually exist in perfection then he would have no reason to exist. Why would God have to actually exist if God is perfect? Why come into existence; for what need? What reason? What purpose? That which is perfect need not to exist because it finds no reason of why to exist. God only is and acts within existing beings and men. The preceding sentence, you cannot grasp.


#7

Where in the world did you acquire this"out of the box’ perception of a God that cannot exist as infinite perfection?? If perfection is only evidenced through non-existence then perfection ceases to exist in which case there is no God. For many obvious reasons I cannot subscribe to your heretical theory but I do give you an “A” for creativity.


#8

No, matter and energy are opposing forces which oppose eachother in order to reflect the true nature of existence–that existence is struggling to define itself, in the natural world. Spirit is the force that drives all things. Whether it be physical or mental. All things came from the imagination; just as the natural world came from the imagination, from beings whom we would consider Gods; as they know not how to define existence; but through that which is necessary by progression of two primal-opposing forces, called matter and energy.


#9

Another clever wordplay…those who don’t agree with your point can’t grasp it, you seem to be saying. Sorry, again, it’s only a clever wordplay that changes nothing. Quite frankly, God simply does exist and is perfect. It’s not that He was forced to exist against His will, nor that He needed some reason to exist, it’s simply a characteristic of God that He does exist just as much as it’s a characteristic of God that He is perfect. The two characteristics are not mutually exclusive; your logic says so, but again, God defines perfection, not you. You may say I just don’t grasp the sentence…the sentence is clear–it’s simply a fallacy. God would exist even if no other being or person ever existed; I’m pretty sure I “grasp” your sentence enough to know that this truth renders the sentence false.


#10

So God is now a non-existent imagination?:confused: :confused:


#11

Very well said. I tend to wonder if the OP knows that he exists or is he just a figment of his own imagination in which case you and I are really conversing with no one??:wink:


#12

Then how come if God were to be perfect, he would have to be perfect in the eyes of all existing beings and men, when some are thrown into a lake of brimstone and fire; how can God be granted perfection, if this image, of hell, were to be true?
God to be perfect must necessarily be perfect in the eyes of all existing beings and men.


#13

Hell is a separation from God. Once we turn our eyes from the infinite perfection of God we separate ourselves and that eternal separation is hell.God is perfection in the eyes of all His creation but to only those who choose to see…


#14

Very well said. I tend to wonder if the OP knows that he exists or is he just a figment of his own imagination in which case you and I are really conversing with no one??

Interesting thought, :wink:

Says you. Nice try though, but again, this is another attempt at a wordplay, and an appeal to the human ego. It doesn’t work.


#15

Then how come God, if he is perfect, allows some to be separated from him, in this hell that we imagine to be?
Wouldn’t a perfect God consider those who are separated from him and choose to bring even those who are separated from him back to him?


#16

He does. He sent His Son to die in order to do this. But He will never compromise our free will. He allows this only because of His immense love for us, so intense that He will not drag anyone kicking and screaming into a place with Him if they refuse to be there.

Sidenote: I noticed in your profile that you identify yourself as Catholic. Where does any of this fit into Catholic teachings??


#17

Wouldn’t a perfect God consider those who are separated from him and choose to bring even those who are separated from him back to him?

If you mean “wouldn’t a perfect God do away with hell altogether no matter what?” Apparently not. God’s perfect, and so if anyone truly deliberately knowingly rejects the love of and for God and is therefore eternally separated from Him (and we can never judge for sure who is or isn’t in that state, or if anyone actually is when it comes down to it), it must not require imperfection for Him to allow this condition to exist. It’s as simple as that: God is the standard of perfection, He is perfection. We and our thoughts of what seems fair to us are not that standard, and cannot bind God to our rules of perfection.

teachccd gives a very good answer as well, but again, the main point is that you’re trying to hold God to your view of perfection…God doesn’t need to meet that challenge in order to be perfect.


#18

Why would God need to send someone to save us if he is perfect? Wouldn’t a perfect God be able to establish perfection in any other way? Isn’t there any other way that God could save us from our sins, if he were perfect? How come in order to save someone, one of us needs to die? Is death part of God’s image of perfection? Why would it be necessary to die in order save a world? What? The Gods could do it no other way?


#19

You are so articulate and on target. I’ve been a Catholic for 47 years. In your profile there is no need for any excusing you. Many blessings in your journey through R.C.I.A. God Bless and know that I’m learning from you…:slight_smile:


#20

Thanks!!! I’m very touched, and don’t know what to say to that! Thank you very much for your kind words, though I feel unworthy of them; I just try to do and say what I can for the Faith, based on reasoning, scripture and the Church’s teachings. I thank you again for complimenting my efforts! It really is a blessing. Well, I need to get to bed for now, though. Thanks again, and God bless!


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