the truth


#1

hia i believe in the facts just the facts,and there is no where in the bible of a word called purgatory,it is just not there.in the book of maccabees it hints at it but those were preys for the dead.i believe in what aathe great apostle paul said thet to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.


#2

Ignoring the more important points that Jesus had a life, and that His life and His teachings encompassed far more in significance than the small amount that has been summarized in the Bible,

how do you interpret 1 Corinthians 3:15:

If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

and how do you interpret 1 Peter 1:7:

so that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold which though perishable is tested by fire, may redound to praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.%between% %between%

%between% %between%


#3

Ok… I’ll bite.

[quote=7 day catholic]hia i believe in the facts just the facts,and there is no where in the bible of a word called purgatory
[/quote]

Yeah? So what?

Try this fact: no where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the only source of Truth and Divine Revelation. In fact, it says just the opposite…


#4

[quote=7 day catholic]hia i believe in the facts just the facts,and there is no where in the bible of a word called purgatory,it is just not there.in the book of maccabees it hints at it but those were preys for the dead.i believe in what aathe great apostle paul said thet to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.
[/quote]

Paul was talking about himself, not others when he wrote this. Context, context, context!

Besides, those in purgatory are saved. They are not being given a “second chance” nor are they in danger of going to hell, so they are “with the Lord” because they are not in hell nor is there any danger that they will be.


#5

[quote=7 day catholic]hia i believe in the facts just the facts,and there is no where in the bible of a word called purgatory,it is just not there.in the book of maccabees it hints at it but those were preys for the dead.i believe in what aathe great apostle paul said thet to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.
[/quote]

As Timidity points out, the Bible doesn’t make the claim that it is the only source. If you say it is, which you seem to do, please show us where it 1) says it is the only source and 2) where is has a list of the books that make up the Bible.

Also the word Trinity does not appear in the Bible so I guess you do not believe in the Trinity and if you do not then you are not Christian.


#6

And while you are at it, please show us altar calls in Scripture. Show us the sinner’s prayer, and also show us “accepting Jesus Christ as your personal saviour.” If you are not a Seventh Day Adventist, please show us Sunday worship.

Scott


#7

I looked at your profile and you list yourself as Catholic. Why are you arguing against something that is part and parcel of The Catholic Faith? AND arguing like a Bible thumping fundamentalist at that!
Unless you are a very young person who is confused and truly seeking information.
Please let us know.


#8

[quote=7 day catholic]hia i believe in the facts just the facts,and there is no where in the bible of a word called purgatory,it is just not there.in the book of maccabees it hints at it but those were preys for the dead.i believe in what aathe great apostle paul said thet to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.
[/quote]

Are you sure that you aren’t protestant? Even a young Catholic would know that the church is founded on both scripture and tradition.


#9

[quote=deb1]Are you sure that you aren’t protestant? Even a young Catholic would know that the church is founded on both scripture and tradition.
[/quote]

your onto something deb, maybe a 7th day Adventist pretending to be Catholic? they could at least try to hide it. From the time frame it looks like a hit and run, or a hit and watch from the sidelines. Oh well.

7dayCathlic, are you Catholic?


#10

[quote=7 day catholic]hia i believe in the facts just the facts,and there is no where in the bible of a word called purgatory,it is just not there.in the book of maccabees it hints at it but those were preys for the dead.i believe in what aathe great apostle paul said thet to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.
[/quote]

I think one’s soul has to be perfected. No doubt it is corrupt, because it began with original sin and is raised in sinful society.

To be perfected the soul has to be healed. This healing can take place during one’s lifetime on earth, such as in the Dark Night of the Soul (st. john of the cross) by a process called purgative contemplation. This brings us into Transforming Union by the Holy Spirit and coupled with contemplative prayer forms, often afford a glimpse of Divine Union.

In order for our soul to be completely perfected, we have to “die” to ourselves. Through the spiritual journey and especially under the guidance of an experienced spiritual director, one can lose one’s false self – the self Jesus wants us to deny – and get a lot of our work toward being perfect started.

The goal is no short of being perfect, as our Father in heaven is perfect.

As far as a lot of the details that some people find important, who know the time frame in purgatory, when with God a day is like a thousand years and vice versa? I have always questioned anything that claims to any specific number of days, years, etc that you can get reduced. Who really knows whether a “year” in purgatory means anything, and specifically if it means 365 earth days. When one’s body no longer inhabits the earth why do things on an earth-based schedule?

Alan


#11

[quote=Della]Paul was talking about himself, not others when he wrote this. Context, context, context!

Besides, those in purgatory are saved. They are not being given a “second chance” nor are they in danger of going to hell, so they are “with the Lord” because they are not in hell nor is there any danger sthat they will be.
[/quote]

i would like to say that there is no such place as purgatory,because jesus died for mans sins once and for allif you believe in purgatory you are then cancelling out what jesus did on the cross,as for context paul was speaking on behalf of everyone when he said those words.


#12

[quote=deb1]Are you sure that you aren’t protestant? Even a young Catholic would know that the church is founded on both scripture and tradition.
[/quote]

so what that doesn`t mean hat i agree and that the church is always right,i say just the bible.


#13

[quote=awalt]Ignoring the more important points that Jesus had a life, and that His life and His teachings encompassed far more in significance than the small amount that has been summarized in the Bible,

how do you interpret 1 Corinthians 3:15:

If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

and how do you interpret 1 Peter 1:7:

so that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold which though perishable is tested by fire, may redound to praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. he is not meaning purgatory here

[/quote]


#14

[quote=catsrus]I looked at your profile and you list yourself as Catholic. Why are you arguing against something that is part and parcel of The Catholic Faith? AND arguing like a Bible thumping fundamentalist at that!
Unless you are a very young person who is confused and truly seeking information.
Please let us know.
[/quote]

because we owe it to ourselves to kn ow the truth,and to watch for a false gospel,tradition is not always the best results as it has proven that tradition has flaws in it like swiss cheese.


#15

[quote=ByzCath]As Timidity points out, the Bible doesn’t make the claim that it is the only source. If you say it is, which you seem to do, please show us where it 1) says it is the only source and 2) where is has a list of the books that make up the Bible.

Also the word Trinity does not appear in the Bible so I guess you do not believe in the Trinity and if you do not then you are not Christian.
[/quote]

the catholic church had added things to christianity,since the canon is considered closed i feel that any other teaching is irrelvant,as for the trinity come on lets not play gasmes here.i go with the bible alone,anfd that`s that.


#16

[quote=Scott Waddell]And while you are at it, please show us altar calls in Scripture. Show us the sinner’s prayer, and also show us “accepting Jesus Christ as your personal saviour.” If you are not a Seventh Day Adventist, please show us Sunday worship.

Scott
[/quote]

i have jesus christ and his spirit living inside me,i dont need no sacrament in front of me,anyone who calls on the lord jesus will be saved look it up yourself it is found in romans for you catholics who dont know or reasd the bible.


#17

No offense, 7 day catholic, but your posts remind me of those of various non-Catholics who come in here and pose as Catholics while trying to shake the faith of real Catholics. One tell-tale sign of such a person is “catholic” with a lower case “c” under religion on the profile. If this is the case, shame on you. Deception is not Christ-like.

Even if this is not the case, since you reject a doctrine of the Church, you are essentially protestant anyway. By claiming the Catholic Church is in error by teaching Purgatory, you claim that she is not the authority instituted by Jesus and guided and protected by the Holy Spirit. By judging which Catholic doctrines are true and which are false, you have made your self and your personal opinions the arbiter of Truth.


#18

[quote=7 day catholic]so what that doesn`t mean hat i agree and that the church is always right,i say just the bible.
[/quote]

…and where did the Bible come from? Did Jesus hand out Bibles just before he ascended? What gives you the authority to determine that the Church got it right when it came to the canon? Where in the Bible does the Church have the authority to codify the canon and then the authority goes to whoever? Furthermore, where in the Bible does it mention that the Bible is all encompassing? What inspiried author wrote the table of contents to the Bible?

Simply, the Catholic Church held the authority to compile the canon into today’s Bible. That was part of the Church’s teaching authority, the Church still has that authority and it is exercised in the various spiritual and moral teachings.


#19

[quote=Timidity]Ok… I’ll bite.

Yeah? So what?

Try this fact: no where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the only source of Truth and Divine Revelation. In fact, it says just the opposite…
[/quote]

you are believing in false teachins,even the catholic encyclopedia says thast purgatory is not found in the bible and also the catholic church is full of tradition which have no solid foundations just study the church fathers and read up on what they said about it.you are very naive.


#20

[quote=7 day catholic]i have jesus christ and his spirit living inside me,i dont need no sacrament in front of me,anyone who calls on the lord jesus will be saved look it up yourself it is found in romans for you catholics who dont know or reasd the bible.
[/quote]

7 day, this rhetoric is unnecessary. Certianly, you must be a Protestant who has come here posing as a Catholic (as one person has pointed out, since your beliefs are contrary to that of the Catholic faith, you are, by definition, not a Catholic). I am a Protestant as well (if that is what you truly are), but your seeming dishonesty, intentions, tone, and blatant disregard for gracious communication are not going to get you anywhere (wherever you are attempting to go). I believe as you do concerning Purgatory, but maybe you should try to understand their belief in Purgatory before you continue your ungracious polemics that mare the very truths that you believe you represent. If you are truly confident in your beliefs, then attacks are unnecessary, since they only reveal insecurity and lack of learned exposure to those with whom you disagree.

I suggest you ask a question and seek to learn. There are many gracious people here who love the same Lord you do that will be willing to answer your sincere questions, but not attacks.

Just my thoughts on the matter,

Michael


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