The Two Faces of the Ground Zero Mosque

In our efforts to understand Islam and the thought process of Muslims, the dualism of its teachings can be befuddling. Sometimes, I think that that this dualism renders dialogue or debates with Muslims circuitous and unfruitful.

Mr. Raymond Ibrahim underscores the dualism of Islam with clarity in his article.

The Two Faces of the Ground Zero Mosque
June 22, 2010

Excellent short read. His closing paragraph might give consolation to some. What do you think?

I think the reality of this Mosque being built on Ground Zero is coming very close. In a 29-1 vote in favor of this idea I see no reason why this won't happen. I do not believe these are binding votes. Yet they are a very good indicator of the reality of a Ground Zero Mosque.

I see no reason to build a religious sight for the Muslim faith on a sight of Terrorism which happened to have Muslims behind it.

The claims of a cultural sight where those of "all" faiths can learn and come to understand racial tolerance? Thats a Pipe Dream! Where else does this happen in Islam? Am I missing something? Whens the last time "you" were inside a Mosque?

Mr. Ibrahim is going under the assumption that all Muslims are politicized and are aware of those differences in the meaning of words as understood by Muslims and non-Muslims.

I venture to say that most Muslims are no more politically or historically sensitive to those terms than the average Catholic in the pew is toward shades of meaning in Church statements.

They go to pray, give alms, and raise their families in ordinary ways, just as we do. True, some Muslims are very deeply into the subtleties of their faith, just as some Catholics can in likewise discuss in detail ours. :shrug:

At any rate, the true history of Cordoba, not to mention the whole of Andalusia, is far less inspiring than what Western academics portray: the Christian city was conquered by Muslims around 711, its inhabitants slaughtered or enslaved. The original mosque of Cordoba—the namesake of the Ground Zero mosque—was built atop, and partly from the materials of, a Christian church. Modern day Muslims are well aware of all this. Such is the true—and ominous—legacy of Cordoba.

The builders of the mosque would be well aware of this, for sure. Saudi petrol-dollars funding global sharia most certainly is not the Islam of moderates.

I think that the article would have been more effective though if it would have accurately represented that the mosque was not going to be literally built on the rubble of Ground Zero, but in the vicinity of Ground Zero.

True, the strongest opposition is from those who lost family, friends and loved ones during 9-11. And rightfully so, its very hard not to feel for them and there quest.

Maybe this is not exactly a parallel. In Nazareth, Muslims wanted to build a mosque right next to the Basilica of the Anunciation in the late 1990’s. It did not matter that the basilica has a deeply historic and religious connection to Christians. And that Muslims already have seven mosques (the largest one called the Peace Mosque not far away) in a town of 60,000, not all of which are Muslims, of course.

Thankfully, the Israeli cabinet decided to respond in favor of Christians who protested the construction, deciding in 2002 that there will be no mosque beside the basilica.

Is it not understandable that the proposed NY mosque by Ground Zero is seen as a ‘spit in the eye’ symbol, instead as a symbol of peace as its builders want people to believe? Just because it can be done does not mean it should.

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:3, topic:203818"]
They go to pray, give alms, and raise their families in ordinary ways, just as we do.

[/quote]

It would be nice if there is little difference with their piety and ours. If Islam’s idea of alms giving (zakat) were more pluralistic with its ends, and transparently helps the less fortunate for only peaceful means, there may be less resistance too, with this business of building a mosque next to Ground Zero.

From the article:"More pointedly, throughout Islam's history, whenever a region was conquered, one of the first signs of consolidation was/is the erection of a mosque atop the sacred sites of the vanquished: the pagan Ka'ba temple in Arabia was converted into Islam's holiest site, the mosque of Mecca; the al-Aqsa mosque, Islam's third holiest site, was built atop Solomon's temple in Jerusalem; the Umayyad mosque was built atop the Church of St. John the Baptist; and the Hagia Sophia was converted into a mosque upon the conquest of Constantinople".

Seems pretty straightforward: first, run planes into the towers. Next, build a mosque nearby, a sign of conquest.

Seems odd to me that NYC is even considering the idea.

[quote="JimG, post:8, topic:203818"]
From the article:"More pointedly, throughout Islam's history, whenever a region was conquered, one of the first signs of consolidation was/is the erection of a mosque atop the sacred sites of the vanquished: the pagan Ka'ba temple in Arabia was converted into Islam's holiest site, the mosque of Mecca; the al-Aqsa mosque, Islam's third holiest site, was built atop Solomon's temple in Jerusalem; the Umayyad mosque was built atop the Church of St. John the Baptist; and the Hagia Sophia was converted into a mosque upon the conquest of Constantinople".

Seems pretty straightforward: first, run planes into the towers. Next, build a mosque nearby, a sign of conquest.

Seems odd to me that NYC is even considering the idea.

[/quote]

I have always personally felt that the location of this mosque showed an intent on behalf of the builders to be exactly that sign of conquest. the actual naming of the mosque seems to drive home that point.

It is all arguable of course. The mosque presents itself as a symbol of 'outreach', and Cordoba has been long been romanticized as the 'height of tolerance', in the implicit anti-Catholic comparison to what followed.
It is a historical revision that has become accepted in most liberal circles in spite of the truth of what Islamic conquest means to the subjugated who balk at submission.

NYC, being liberal, sees the world of Islam through rose colored glasses though. That makes their decision to allow the construction here not odd, but predictable.

not a news article

[quote="iamrefreshed, post:23, topic:201946"]
Dome of the rock covering the Temple Mount

Hagia Sophia desecrated and turned into a Mosque.

Just par for Islam.

Now people can pray there thanking Allah for striking at the infidels. But it's all PC.:rolleyes:

[/quote]

The author and I seem to be in agreement.;)

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:3, topic:203818"]
Mr. Ibrahim is going under the assumption that all Muslims are politicized and are aware of those differences in the meaning of words as understood by Muslims and non-Muslims.

I venture to say that most Muslims are no more politically or historically sensitive to those terms than the average Catholic in the pew is toward shades of meaning in Church statements.

They go to pray, give alms, and raise their families in ordinary ways, just as we do. True, some Muslims are very deeply into the subtleties of their faith, just as some Catholics can in likewise discuss in detail ours. :shrug:

[/quote]

You obviously do not live anywhere near Muslim communities. Well, I do, and trust me, they are much more learned in their religion than most Catholics. I wish Catholics were half as devout as Muslims, we would have a much better world. How many Catholics do you know who are willing to die for their beliefs? Well, out of a billion Muslims in the world, it would not untrue to say that at least 10% of them - that is 100 million Muslims - would die for their beliefs, and that is probably a low number.

Watch this video for what I think, is a very informative narrative on this subject.

youtube.com/watch?v=RxFzFIDbKpg

This seems to be a common sense approach to the Ground Zero Mosque to be opened on September 11, 2011 as a sort of victory flag.

Anyway, this is the most common sense statement I have heard or seen. I only received it just yesterday and it seem appropriate to post it here. Apologies if it is old news to some.

It is six minutes, nine seconds and everyone should view it in the interest of diversity and tolerance.

jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html

It was posted by www.jihadwatch.com

[quote="Monte_RCMS, post:14, topic:203818"]
It is six minutes, nine seconds and everyone should view it in the interest of diversity and tolerance.

[/quote]

:) That's Pat Condell the British comedian, the ex-Catholic atheist, the hater of all religion, the ranting bigot who helped in a worldwide campaign to blaspheme the Spirit.

The guy proposing the mosque, Faisal Abdul Rauf, gives a longer but more intelligible talk here.

http://charterforcompassion.org/learn/talks/imam-faisal-abdul-rauf

If the Imam would desire greater credibility, I would suggest that the Vatican be permitted to construct a Cathedral staffed by Jesuits in Jiddah, Saudi Arabia. And that the Cathedral be permitted free and open preaching and teaching of the tenets of Christianity. And that the Catholic Information Center at that Cathedral be permitted free and open access to the people of the Muslim world.

That would be an excellent first step following the words of wisdom by the Imam.

In addition owing to the sensitivity of the issue, it would be most beneficial if the proposed mosque near the former World Trade Center be postponed until after construction of the Cathedral in Jiddah.

And further, as a sign of peace, that the Imam raise funds to compensate the survivors of the World Trade Center destruction in some small way for the sufferings they have received.

In addition, it would be helpful if the madrassas and other educational institutions funded by Saudi Arabia within the United States be temporarily closed, in recognition of the sensitivity of the issue. Or, if not closed, then opened to the people of the United States for them to freely witness the educational and cultural activities that take place therein.

Wouldn't you agree that such transparency would be a good and beneficial thing?

Well I watched the video; here is the description on the Web site:

About This Talk
Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf combines the teachings of the Qur’an, the stories of Rumi, and the examples of Muhammad and Jesus, to demonstrate that only one obstacle stands between each of us and absolute compassion -- ourselves.

About the Speaker
In 2003, Imam Feisel Abdul Rauf founded the Cordoba Initiative, a non-partisan and international organization that works to provide innovative solutions to conflict between Muslim and Western communities. He also serves as chair of the Initiative, actively promoting and moderating dialogue between individuals and groups. What’s more, this project was not the Imam's first foray into interreligious talks. In 1997, he started the American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA), a group that brings American Muslims and non-Muslims together through programs in policy, current affairs and culture.

Also, Imam Rauf regularly attends the Council on Foreign Relations and the World Economic Forum (both Davos and Dead Sea) and has written three books on the topic of bringing peace to Islam's relations: Islam: A Search for Meaning; Islam: A Sacred Law; and What's Right With Islam: A New Vision for Muslims and the West. He continues to balance his mission of creating peace with his regular duties as Imam of Masjid al-Farah, a mosque twelve blocks from Ground Zero in New York City, that he has led for 25 years.

One thing that hasn't been done at ground zero, that should have been done, is simply to rebuild the twin towers. Make them one story higher than they were before, as a sign of refusal to submit to terrorism.

It took one year--one year!--to build the Empire State Building which was completed in 1931. Now, nine plus years after the destruction of the twin towers, is there any plan to rebuild? No.

But there will be a mosque built nearby as a sign of conquest.

[quote="Monte_RCMS, post:14, topic:203818"]
This seems to be a common sense approach to the Ground Zero Mosque to be opened on September 11, 2011 as a sort of victory flag.

Anyway, this is the most common sense statement I have heard or seen. I only received it just yesterday and it seem appropriate to post it here. Apologies if it is old news to some.

It is six minutes, nine seconds and everyone should view it in the interest of diversity and tolerance.

jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html

It was posted by www.jihadwatch.com

And also:

[/quote]

Well, I could only evaluate the actual words of the speaker ... I had no idea who Mr. Condell is or what his religion is or was. His words on the six minute video were temperate, not hateful. He did not "blaspheme the Spirit". He was not ranting; he was speaking in terms of the sensitivity of the situation of the 3000 people who were brutally murdered at the World Trade Center by two teams of carefully selected, carefully vetted, carefully financed, and carefully trained hijackers. Not to mention the two other teams who hijacked planes that crashed into the Pentagon and into a field in Pennsylvania, when the passengers fought back.

So, after I listened to Mr. Condell's words, his words seemed quite reasonable.

Perhaps it is because I am closer to the World Trade Center than some others.

But that is immaterial.

It was an organized attack by people from other countries financed by outsiders and inspired by outsiders.

The attacks were not carried out by some disorangized, drugged up rabble of know-nothings ... the attacks were conducted by well-educated men who were fully in charge of their senses.

My thought that day was this: we are at war.

[quote="JimG, post:17, topic:203818"]
One thing that hasn't been done at ground zero, that should have been done, is simply to rebuild the twin towers. Make them one story higher than they were before, as a sign of refusal to submit to terrorism.

It took one year--one year!--to build the Empire State Building which was completed in 1931. Now, nine plus years after the destruction of the twin towers, is there any plan to rebuild? No.

But there will be a mosque built nearby as a sign of conquest.

[/quote]

The Empire State Building was NOT built by a government agency / consortium of government agencies.

The Empire State Building was built privately.

The World Trade Center "complex" is, as was the original, the project of government entities that cannot decide what they are about.

The building known as 7 World Trade was rebuilt very rapidly and the owner, Larry Silverstein, changed the floor plate to allow a street to pass through the site and changed the lower floors to accommodate the need for a much larger electrical sub-station than before and also had vastly improved fire stairs and other features.

But, then again, the government doesn't want you to know that 7 WTC was totally a private venture.

Contrary to the wishes and beliefs of some, the private sector does tend to get these things done more efficiently, more quickly, and less expensively.

Hey Muslims! You scary!!!

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