The ultimate truth is that there is Truth


#1

Hi
One of our members on the Apologetics sub-forum has the signature:
The ultimate truth is that there is no Ultimate Truth.
I don’t agree with him and I say:
The ultimate truth is that there is Truth.
What is you opinion?
Thanks


#2

The Ethiops say that their gods are flat-nosed and black,
While the Thracians say that theirs have blue eyes and red hair.

Yet if cattle or horses or lions had hands and could draw
And could sculpture like men, then the horses would draw their gods
Like horses, and cattle like cattle, and each would then shape
Bodies of gods in the likeness, each kind, of its own.

The gods did not reveal, from the beginning,
All things to us; but in the course of time,
Through seeking we may learn, and know things better…

These things are, we conjecture, like the truth.

But as for certain truth, no man has known it,
Nor will he know it; neither of the gods,
Nor yet of all the things of which I speak.
And even if by chance he were to utter
The final truth, he would himself not know it:
For all is but a woven web of guesses.

Xenophanes


#3

Where is the truth? Show me? Prove to me its the truth and i will believe!


#4

Who’s asking?:smiley:


#5

I would say that both are incorrect… the ultimate truth is the supreme being of the divine, which, unfortunately, defies all human understanding in our unperfected form.


#6

You ask what is your opinion?

Is “ultimate” truth just one’s opinion?


#7

Whos asking? A catholic girl who can think for herself, thats who.
There is NO truth; but what we believe in and have faith in.
I have faith in God and His Son and not much else…:rolleyes:


#8

Why is a Muslim here wondering about “truth”?


#9

Hi
GodAllahYHWH is the truth.
Thanks


#10

How do you know?


#11

I’m sure you have faith in yourself.:slight_smile:


#12

Well of course, we will know the ultimate truth. We will see him face to face, at least at judgement, and by his grace, throughout eternity.

But not here, and not now. Yet we must be careful not to make the illogical leap from that revealed reality to the erroneous conclusion that we can, in the meantime, know nothing of the truth, or nothing with certainty. Even in mathematics, for example, there are numbers (eg, e, pi) we know are transcendental, and numbers (eg. Apéry’s constant) about which we cannot be sure. But the existence of the latter does not influence the truth of the former assertion.

Blessings,

Gerry


#13

If ALL truth is relative, then the very statement that “ALL truth is relative,” is also relative.

If you have a both/and system that say all religions are true, this begs the question…

So must I only use the both/and system or nothing else?

See, we have a serious problem. If you can only use the both/and system of logic, you are then denying the use of other logic which defeats the very system it is supposed to be supporting.

Another way to word it is, if someone says the both/and system is the only one that’s right, that is then excluding the either/or system; however you can’t exclude the either/or system if you embrace the both/and.

This is where much of eastern religion falls flat on its face. (…or floats into some parallel dimension… which every you prefer.)

The either/or system has to emerge if there is a contradiction. All ideas are not equal! If they were equal, then false ideas would be as good as true ideas.

To say that there is no ultimate truth, you’re also denying that the very statement that “there is no ultimate truth.”

Yes, there is objective truth; however, we may not always know what that is. If you disagree with me and say that there is no objective truth, then your belief that there is no truth is subjective.

Hehe… okay… I’m now starting to perplex myself. :slight_smile:

The only clarification I wanted to make is that the both/and system is perfectly fine if there is no contradiction.


#14

Hi
Do you deny it ?
Are you a Catholic? Then you won’t deny it.
Thanks


#15

Your a muslim ; you can call yourself what ever you like, but the fact still is muslim.
So yes. I deny your unproven “truth.”


#16

Hi
Allah is not the truth.
You’re welcome


paarsurrey… I know you’re capable of making a more intellectual statement than that on CAF.

If I said that the Holy Trinity is the truth: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you would not find that a strong argument either.

Of course, Catholics believe the Holy Trinity is the source of all truth, but this thread is not about the Blessed Trinity.

Come to think of it, perhaps it is?

Would it be wrong to say that the Trinity = The Source of Ultimate Truth? No, I don’t think it would; however, this delves into a realm far beyond human reason alone.

Likewise, as it stands, your belief does not carry a lot of weight, particularly in this arena.

You can certainly make your case for that, but I suggest you start a new thread.


#17

Hi
I have started this one, it is a new thread.
Thanks


#18

Yep… good call.


#19

Guilty :slight_smile:

I don’t agree with him and I say:
The ultimate truth is that there is Truth.
What is you opinion?

I have no problem with truth. I do have a problem with Ultimate Truth.

We ourselves are not ultimate. The words we use are not ultimate. We have no way to tell if something we are told is actually Ultimate Truth or if it is merely ordinary truth. In order to determine Ultimate Truth, we need an Ultimate Method to determine it. We do not have such a method; all we have a lots of different methods, all claiming to be the Ultimate Method: read the Bible, read the Koran, read the Tanakh, listen to the Pope, meditate, listen to your guru, read the Bhagavad Gita etc. We need an Ultimate Ultimate Method Selector - and so on in an infinite regress.

If something is actually Ultimate Truth then it cannot be described in words. Words are not ultimate, they are ordinary, so any ordinary words we use cannot describe Ultimate Truth. If we say that God is omniscient then we are limiting God - if God knows everything then God can never learn anything new as we can. In some sense all descriptions of God have to be false because we cannot capture the full description of God inside mere words. You can apply the story of The Blind Men and the Elephant here.

Another way of looking at things is the Zen story of the finger and the moon. You must not mistake the finger for the moon. Words cannot ever be the moon, they can only be the finger.

From the Buddhist perspective, one of the better descriptions of ultimate truth comes from Vimalakirti:Then the Bodhisattva Manjushri said to Vimalakirti, “We have all given our teachings, noble sir. Now, may you elucidate the teaching of the the entrance into the principle of nonduality.”

Thereupon Vimalakirti kept his silence, saying nothing at all.

The Bodhisattva Manjushri applauded Vimalakirti: “Excellent! Excellent, noble sir! This is indeed the entrance into the nonduality of the Bodhisattvas.”

Vimalakirtinirdesa sutra Ch 9

rossum


#20

Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. John 8:58

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Revelations 22:13

In John 5:18 we are told that Jesus’ opponents sought to kill him because he “called God his Father, making himself equal with God.”

In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, “My Lord and my God!”

catholic.com/library/Divinity_of_Christ.asp

There are many other examples. Anyway…

As a Buddhist, what are your thoughts about Jesus’ claim to be God Himself?

To Christians, Jesus Christ is the Ultimate Truth, because in Him and through Him all things were created. He is the God of the universe, and the only Savior of mankind. Christ is the ultimate destiny of our souls.

God Bless,
JB


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