The Vatican = Whore of Babylon?


#1

How do I counteract this nonsense that the Vatican (therefore the whole RCC) is the Whore of Babylon mentioned in the book of Apocalypse (Revelation for Protestants)? I believe the verse this person is referring to is “city on seven hills” or something similar, which supposedly refers to Rome.

Thanks & God Bless.


#2

Ask and ye shall receive!

catholic.com/library/Whore_of_Babylon.asp


#3

Um, well heres something that got posted earlier on a previous similar topic.Dont know how useful it is, i just skimmed through.

shasta.com/sphaws/vicar.html


#4

quickest…
responses…
ever?


#5

http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

I hope it helps!


#6

You must realize that the book of Revelation was written in 95 AD or so and John was referring to pagan Rome in Revelation 13 and chapter 17. Only Rome is known for it’s seven hills. The scarlet woman pictures it’s idolatress worship and false religious practices. This power was the one who was guilty of the deaths of the saints. Just looking into history during the reign of Domitian and Nero is evidence enough.

                            The religious-political form of the papacy didn't really come into being until Constantine united Christianity with political Rome and that wasn't until the 3rd century. The Papacy did not put to death it's own saints, but held them in high esteem.

                              To properly understand the vision of Revelation, one must view it through 1st century eyes as John did. Notice that this was directly written to the seven churches IN ASIA at that time. Revelation was a message to the Catholic church as a whole that was undergoing great persecution and martyrdom at that time. It was a message of hope for the church in that time.

#7

The biggest problem about the whole seven hills thing is that Vatican hill wasn’t apart of Rome at the time (and still isn’t).


#8

[quote=bogeyjlg]The biggest problem about the whole seven hills thing is that Vatican hill wasn’t apart of Rome at the time (and still isn’t).
[/quote]

But man there are sure people who sware up and down that it is:rolleyes:


#9

The biggest evidence is the fact that Vatican Hill was a graveyard at the time (hence the crypts under Saint Peter’s). Roman’s didn’t like dead bodies in their city so the dead were placed outside of the city.


#10

the whore of babylon is the established religion the anti-christ brings in…that is currently in the works in the EU Constitution, it would abolish christianity but embrace new age religions, would mostly be a hodge podge of religions, and out of this the anti-christ will call himself god and sit on the throne in the temple and thats where the abomination of desolation is where he sacrifices a pig and declares all to worship him…not sure if the catholic church has a role in it…the book of revelation unfolds as time, so a lot of stuff is pure speculation…but for sure i can tell you the revived roman empire is the European Union in which that is where the anti christ will come out of…anyways…getting off topic here…hope that answers your question…

Ceasar


#11

[quote=piety101]You must realize that the book of Revelation was written in 95 AD or so and John was referring to pagan Rome in Revelation 13 and chapter 17. Only Rome is known for it’s seven hills. The scarlet woman pictures it’s idolatress worship and false religious practices. This power was the one who was guilty of the deaths of the saints. Just looking into history during the reign of Domitian and Nero is evidence enough.

The religious-political form of the papacy didn’t really come into being until Constantine united Christianity with political Rome and that wasn’t until the 3rd century. The Papacy did not put to death it’s own saints, but held them in high esteem.

To properly understand the vision of Revelation, one must view it through 1st century eyes as John did. Notice that this was directly written to the seven churches IN ASIA at that time. Revelation was a message to the Catholic church as a whole that was undergoing great persecution and martyrdom at that time. It was a message of hope for the church in that time.
[/quote]

Yes, I had told him that it was more than likely referring to what happened in Jerusalem in AD70 AND/OR pagan Rome, but I hadn’t studied the subject in a long time and just needed some refreshing in it. Thanks.


#12

[quote=ceasar]the whore of babylon is the established religion the anti-christ brings in…that is currently in the works in the EU Constitution, it would abolish christianity but embrace new age religions, would mostly be a hodge podge of religions, and out of this the anti-christ will call himself god and sit on the throne in the temple and thats where the abomination of desolation is where he sacrifices a pig and declares all to worship him…not sure if the catholic church has a role in it…the book of revelation unfolds as time, so a lot of stuff is pure speculation…but for sure i can tell you the revived roman empire is the European Union in which that is where the anti christ will come out of…anyways…getting off topic here…hope that answers your question…

Ceasar
[/quote]

Been watching too much Jack Van Impe? :slight_smile:


#13

[quote=Semper Fi]Been watching too much Jack Van Impe? :slight_smile:
[/quote]

LOL…i love watching jack van impe…been watching him for years…glad he started putting his broadcasts on his website…but, i’ve been raised in this teaching my whole life…i have a learned a lot from dr. jack van impe but most of what i know…i learned when i was a kid…

Ceasar


#14

i’ve heard this alot about the church being the whore of baylon, i’ve also heard of the church being the beast and the pope being the whore. it’s all nonsense…


#15

[quote=ceasar]LOL…i love watching jack van impe…been watching him for years…glad he started putting his broadcasts on his website…but, i’ve been raised in this teaching my whole life…i have a learned a lot from dr. jack van impe but most of what i know…i learned when i was a kid…

Ceasar
[/quote]

You must be weary of what Jack Van Impe teaches (preaches)… while a lot of it is good, most of what he says isn’t in line with Catholic Doctrine. ie. pre-tribulation rapture, whore of Babylon speculation, speculating on the return of Christ (no one shall know the time or the hour except the Father which is in Heaven) etc… Watch it, but with a grain of salt. He speaks a lot like an Evangelical Baptist minister. :slight_smile:

He’ll preach that Catholics are his brothers and sisters in Christ and then go on to preach some garbage about the St. Malachi “prophecies” which were proven a hoax as they were written a few hundred years after St Malachi died. Also, he’ll say that Catholics are his brothers and sisters in Christ and then take quotes out of context which our Pope John Paul the Great said and then subtly use them against us. Also, a couple broadcasts back he mentioned that our Pope Benedict (when he was Cardinal Ratzinger) signed a “treaty” with the Lutherans saying that Catholics aren’t saved by works anymore… Yeah, of course he could sign that; we never said we were! :slight_smile: A few years ago he was predicting that the Pope after John Paul II would be the antiChrist… Javk Van Impe is just a wolf in sheep’s clothing looking to make a quick buck off of Christ.


#16

[quote=ceasar]the whore of babylon is the established religion the anti-christ brings in…that is currently in the works in the EU Constitution, it would abolish christianity but embrace new age religions, would mostly be a hodge podge of religions, and out of this the anti-christ will call himself god and sit on the throne in the temple and thats where the abomination of desolation is where he sacrifices a pig and declares all to worship him…not sure if the catholic church has a role in it…the book of revelation unfolds as time, so a lot of stuff is pure speculation…but for sure i can tell you the revived roman empire is the European Union in which that is where the anti christ will come out of…anyways…getting off topic here…hope that answers your question…

Ceasar
[/quote]

Sorry, I don’t buy it especially in light of the recent votes rejecting the EU constitution in France and the Netherlands. Originally the claim was the tie-in to twelve nations and twelve stars in the crown of the whore. There are presently more than twelve countries in the EU. The abomination refers to an idol of Jupiter being placed in the Temple during an occupation (um… it’s a little hazy when and what at the moment) of Jerusalem. This is a facinating topic, isn’t it?

Check out those links from the other posts.


#17

Newsflash, the whore of Babylon will sit in 7 hills, well… THE VATICAN IS IN JUST ONE HILL!!!

This is the easiest answer by far.


#18

Sounds like J. Chick, that slave of the Devil is a slandering the Church agin…those who abuse and accuse are often those who are trying to justify themselves to themselves…pray for them:amen:


#19

[quote=Semper Fi]How do I counteract this nonsense that the Vatican (therefore the whole RCC) is the Whore of Babylon mentioned in the book of Apocalypse (Revelation for Protestants)? I believe the verse this person is referring to is “city on seven hills” or something similar, which supposedly refers to Rome.

Thanks & God Bless.
[/quote]

I recommend studying Scripture.

Scott Hahn has a fantastic audior series which studies of Revelation called *The End - The book of Revelation. *You might check your parish or diocese library for it.

See here:
saintjoe.com/p/prod_desc.pl?id=169


#20

The Harlot of Revelations is Jerusalem. Protestant presuppositions regarding Rome are not just biased speculation but is completely wrong. Very simply; the Old Testament gives us the answer. EVERYTIME the WHORE of BABYLON is mentioned in scripture it’s Jerusalem. The only exception is the ONE time scripture states the City of Tyre is the Whore. Scott Hahn found that scripture equates whore/prostitute = Jerusalem everytime, for a total of 28-29 occurrences. Rome is NEVER mentioned as the whore, only Jerusalem. It is completely unbiblical for to aver the contrary.

Isaiah saw a vision for Jerusalem as follows, “Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom, give ear to the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrha.” Isaiah follows up by stating “How is the faithful city, that was full of judgment, become a harlot? justice dwelt in it, but now murderers” See Isaiah Chapter !, verses 10 & 21.

Jeremiah speaks of Jerusalem in the same manner: “Of old time thou hast broken my yoke, thou hast burst my bands, and thou saidst: I will not serve. For on every high hill, and under every green tree thou didst prostitute thyself” Chapter II, verse 20. He further admonishes Jerusalem by saying “How can I be merciful to thee? thy children have forsaken me, and swear by them that are not gods: I fed them to the full, and they committed adultery, and rioted in the harlot’s house” Cahpter V, verse 7.

Speaking to Jerusalem Ezechiel states “But trusting in thy beauty, thou playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and thou hast prostituted thyself to every passenger, to be his.” Chapter 16, verse 15. further, “That thou didst also build thee a common stew, and **madest thee a brothel **house in every street” Verse 24. and “Wherein shall I cleanse thy heart, saith Lord God: seeing thou dost all these the works of a shameless prostitute?” verse 30. Finally, in a most emphatic manner here, "Therefore, O harlot, hear the word of the Lord. " verse 35.

Therefore, there is no ambiguity concerning the city Revelation 11. The “Great” city has always = Jerusalem. Matthew in Chapter 23 corroborates this by saying:

"35 That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.

36 Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation.

37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldst not?


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