The wise men reading the stars


#1

Wasn't there somewhere in the bible that said is was sinful to practice fortune telling through the stars or something like that? If so, how is it that the wise men read the stars (or star) and interpreted it as a new king (Jesus) being born?

Thanks in advance :)


#2

[quote="roseproject, post:1, topic:320923"]
Wasn't there somewhere in the bible that said is was sinful to practice fortune telling through the stars or something like that? If so, how is it that the wise men read the stars (or star) and interpreted it as a new king (Jesus) being born?

Thanks in advance :)

[/quote]

Good question. The eastern magi were, as a matter of fact, doing something which is contrary to God's law. Men are not to place their trust in divination, astrology, or any other type of superstition.

However, as always, God is capable of bringing good out of evil. The Magi, for one, had no divine law which commanded against astrology, so it may not have even been a sin for them. God used their occupation, which was astrology, to lead them to Jesus.

Just another one of our God's little tricks. :p


#3

See my post

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=10562830&postcount=34

They followed a star. Is that astrology? Seeing signs from heaven (sky) and interpreting it, is it fortune telling? In some ancient cultures, reading the skies right is critical for farming, seafaring as well as military/political folks. I used to think it is just pure statistics. If you find enough correlations over thousands of years of observations, you can come to certain conclusions. Not cause/effect but If x then y.


#4

[quote="dshix, post:2, topic:320923"]
Good question. The eastern magi were, as a matter of fact, doing something which is contrary to God's law. Men are not to place their trust in divination, astrology, or any other type of superstition.

However, as always, God is capable of bringing good out of evil. The Magi, for one, had no divine law which commanded against astrology, so it may not have even been a sin for them. God used their occupation, which was astrology, to lead them to Jesus.

Just another one of our God's little tricks. :p

[/quote]

Weren't they using the stars for navigation? There is nothing sinful in that. Or if there is, every single ancient sailor was sinning big time! Hehe. And also many campers. :eek:


#5

[quote="VeritasLuxMea, post:4, topic:320923"]
Weren't they using the stars for navigation? There is nothing sinful in that. Or if there is, every single ancient sailor was sinning big time! Hehe. And also many campers. :eek:

[/quote]

Sailors used the stars for navigation. The magi had a different reason. :p


#6

I have wondered about this question as well.

I saw a movie a year and a half ago called "The Star of Bethlehem" which was made just a few years ago and discusses this matter in great detail. It is a documentary about a man's research through use of a certain computer software which has a record of the course of the stars over thousands of years and how the stars miraculously line up with biblical prophecy. It gives special attention to the likely star that led the wise men. The movie was absolutely awesome, but since turning 45 my memory just isn't what it used to be so I can't elaborate!!:shrug: In any event, it gave historical background of who these wise men likely were and that they were not what we typically associate with astrologers. I would highly recommend this movie to anyone who takes his faith seriously.

Here's the link to it. The reviews are very telling.amazon.com/The-Star-Bethlehem-Frederick-Larson/dp/B002RBHDFK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371175947&sr=8-1&keywords=the+star+of+bethlehem+movie


#7

[quote="roseproject, post:1, topic:320923"]
Wasn't there somewhere in the bible that said is was sinful to practice fortune telling through the stars or something like that? If so, how is it that the wise men read the stars (or star) and interpreted it as a new king (Jesus) being born?

Thanks in advance :)

[/quote]

The Wise Men do not appear to have been practicing divination-- that is just a assumption we have because the story involves a star and because the Greek word *Magoi *has sometimes been (unfortunately) translated as "astrologers". All the Bible says is that they saw his (the Messiah's) star rise in the East and they followed it. Whether this was a natural or (as I'm inclined to believe) a supernatural phenomena, it was meant as a "sign" for them to follow.

In the first view verses of the Book of Genesis, we are told, this is one of the purposes God intended when he created the sun and the moon and the stars- as signs that he can use as messengers to whom the sign is intended:

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs **and for seasons and for days and years, **15 and let them be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth." (Genesis 1:14-15)

There is no divination here. Just signs given by God using means created by Him.


#8

14 And God said: Let there be lights made in the firmament of heaven, to divide the day and the night,* and let them be for signs, and for seasons and for days and years:
Gen1:14.

The star the Magi followed was a sign to the gentiles that they would be welcomed into the family of God along side the chosen people of Israel.
The gifts the Magi gave the infant jesus as they worshiped him were in recognition of the revolation that after all this time the gentiles had finaly found and recognised the one true God.
The Church recognises this great event on the 6th of January the feast day of the Epiphany


#9

[quote="ericc, post:3, topic:320923"]
See my post

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=10562830&postcount=34

They followed a star. Is that astrology? Seeing signs from heaven (sky) and interpreting it, is it fortune telling? In some ancient cultures, reading the skies right is critical for farming, seafaring as well as military/political folks. I used to think it is just pure statistics. If you find enough correlations over thousands of years of observations, you can come to certain conclusions. Not cause/effect but If x then y.

[/quote]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Yep Like full moon to full moon, The Nile river low tide and high tide. At sea they used the stars to navigate. Norsemen navigated this way. Farmers guide is pretty good at this.
The list goes on.


#10

Astrology was banned in the 'Roman Empire officially because of the scams associated with it- like there are today.

But Tiberius was an avid Astrologer.

And the Jewish High Priesthood had their own methodology. Astrology was a big part of their schtick, though not much detail on it has survived.


#11

Most start of Bethlehem presentations as based on a fair amount of astrology, e.g. Jupiter is the king star, but I did a video and article on the star of Bethlehem that uses the Bible as its astronomical source E.g. Jesus identifies Himself as the Bright Morning Star in Rev 22:16. see youtube.com/watch?v=4xHE9U3Pq4o and/or read scripturescholar.com/VenusStarofBethlehem.pdf
Grace and peace,
Bruce


#12

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