The World's history according to Christianity


#1

A recent discussion led me to combining, what we know about the world’s history and Christian dogma. If I made any errors from the Christian viepoint, please correct me.

There is an ultimately powerful and wise intellect, as a whole umcomprehensible to mere humans, which we call God.

That God creates a universe.

Then He waits for roughly 12bln years, during which stars, galaxies, and planets incl. Earth are formed. He then creates the very first life on Earth.

Then He waits another 4bln something years during which this life evolves to near human creatures, with or without His guiding influence. At that point He gives a soul to those creatures, transforming them real humans. ***Each ***soul has the following properties:
[list]
*] It is eternal and leaves the body after death.
*] It is expected to follow a certain code of conduct set by Him.
*] It may decide by its own will, whether to follow that code or not.
*] If it follows the code, it will be rewarded, if not, it will be punished or at least may not participate in the reward.
*] Every single soul has already broken the code, because the first two souls did so.
*]It is necessary for every soul to recognise that, to repent, and to ask God for forgiveness for breaking the code, so that it may be saved from the punishment.
[/list] Then He waits for several 10000 years before He reveals Himself to a tiny minority of humans (the ancient Hebrews), and tells them about the afore mentioned code and how He wants to be worshipped for the first time.

Then He waits for roughly another 2500 years and assumes human form. After having lived an ordinary life for 30 years he starts telling a handful of people, what the code *really *is and how He *really *wants to be worshipped. Because that differs from the rules established 2500 years ago, the descendants of the people, to whom He has revealed Himself, get Him killed. Somehow this is a symbol or even necessary for Him to save the code-breaking humans. Three days after His death, He reappears and orders that handful of people to spread the new rules all over the world.

Everybody is now oblieged to believe that story. Uhm, hello?


#2

World History according to the atheist.

All of sudden there was a big bang. Then chemical reactions started happening and they continue happening. The end.

You don’t have the Christian history totally clear, but why is that history more plausible than the above one?


#3

When you think about God creating Adam don’t you usually think of a man about 30 years old?

You see God can create something that appears to have aged. Science tells us the earth is about 4.5 billion years old, but God is not limited with time. What does 4 billion years mean to God? No one knows. God could instantly create an earth that appears or actually is billions of years old.

He told a handful of people to spread his message to all the ends of the earth. The fact that the gospel has indeed covered all the earth through the Catholic Church is testimony that something greater (Holy Spirit) was with those handful of men and whomever they taught.

I know that the fact that Christianity (especially in America) is so fragmented hurts the faith of many but that is why the Catholic Church is true and constantly proclaims the truth. You’ve seen the millions and millions of people around the world in the Catholic Church give their respects to the Pope. So indeed something greater is at work to protect a Church and inspire its people.


#4

It’s easy to ridicule ANY explanation of ANY phenonmena when it is presented as a caricature in a sarcastic manner. If you wish to be taken seriously, kindly adjust your attitude. :slight_smile:


#5

[quote=Genesis315]World History according to the atheist.

All of sudden there was a big bang. Then chemical reacions started happening and they continue happening. The end.

You don’t have the Christian history totally clear, but why is that history more plausible than the above one?
[/quote]

Yes, that is exactly the point! What is more plausible? And why?


#6

[quote=AnAtheist]Yes, that is exactly the point! What is more plausible? And why?
[/quote]

The Christian one because the resurrection goes against how chemical reactions work.


#7

[quote=Fidelis]It’s easy to ridicule ANY explanation of ANY phenonmena when it is presented as a caricature in a sarcastic manner. If you wish to be taken seriously, kindly adjust your attitude. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Really, this is not intended as a caricature. That is exactly, what Christianity’s teaching means. If I got something ***wrong ***and not just worded it a bit differently from what you are used to, then please tell what.
The concluding “Hello?” just expresses my state of mind, when I think about this story.


#8

[quote=Genesis315]The Christian one because the resurrection goes against how chemical reactions work.
[/quote]

Credo quia absurdum?

Unacceptable.


#9

[quote=AnAtheist]Credo quia absurdum?

Unacceptable.
[/quote]

Why? I accept it. Therefore it is able to be accepted.


#10

[quote=Genesis315]Why? I accept it. Therefore it is able to be accepted.
[/quote]

Sorry, I meant unacceptable to me.


#11

[quote=AnAtheist]Sorry, I meant unacceptable to me.
[/quote]

Ahhh my bad. Well, why is it unacceptable to you then?


#12

[quote=Genesis315]Ahhh my bad. Well, why is it unacceptable to you then?
[/quote]

Because I cannot derive a logical or at least a plausible conclusion from absurd prepositions or illogical methods of deriving those conclusions.


#13

[quote=AnAtheist]Because I cannot derive a logical or at least a plausible conclusion from absurd prepositions or illogical methods of deriving those conclusions.
[/quote]

Give me an example. Do you mean you can’t accept something that defies the usual laws of nature?


#14

[quote=AnAtheist]A recent discussion led me to combining, what we know about the world’s history and Christian dogma. If I made any errors from the Christian viepoint, please correct me.

There is an ultimately powerful and wise intellect, as a whole umcomprehensible to mere humans, which we call God.

That God creates a universe.

Then He waits for roughly 12bln years, during which stars, galaxies, and planets incl. Earth are formed. He then creates the very first life on Earth.

Then He waits another 4bln something years during which this life evolves to near human creatures, with or without His guiding influence. At that point He gives a soul to those creatures, transforming them real humans. ***Each ***soul has the following properties:
[list]
*]It is eternal and leaves the body after death.
*]It is expected to follow a certain code of conduct set by Him.
*]It may decide by its own will, whether to follow that code or not.
*]If it follows the code, it will be rewarded, if not, it will be punished or at least may not participate in the reward.
*]Every single soul has already broken the code, because the first two souls did so.
*]It is necessary for every soul to recognise that, to repent, and to ask God for forgiveness for breaking the code, so that it may be saved from the punishment.
[/list]Then He waits for several 10000 years before He reveals Himself to a tiny minority of humans (the ancient Hebrews), and tells them about the afore mentioned code and how He wants to be worshipped for the first time.

Then He waits for roughly another 2500 years and assumes human form. After having lived an ordinary life for 30 years he starts telling a handful of people, what the code *really *is and how He *really *wants to be worshipped. Because that differs from the rules established 2500 years ago, the descendants of the people, to whom He has revealed Himself, get Him killed. Somehow this is a symbol or even necessary for Him to save the code-breaking humans. Three days after His death, He reappears and orders that handful of people to spread the new rules all over the world.

Everybody is now oblieged to believe that story. Uhm, hello?
[/quote]

I would adjust your language in the “properties of the soul” department.

You suggest that the soul “may decide by its own will, whether to follow that code or not.” This is a little too Pelagian. Unaided by grace, the soul will make the bad decision every single time. God makes the first move, tickling our fancies with an offer of salvation and grace empowering us to seek salvation. That grace itself mystically empowers our fallen selves to accept it, in a mysterious process.

That “punishment” may be ironic – the awayness from God which we sought in our lives of sin.

We inherit our humanity and therefore our fallen nature, which is disgusting to God, from our origins. That fallen nature would be an inevitable thing were grace not available. Because Christ died for us, grace is available.

Repentance means that we humbly acknowledge our sin and our need for grace. By this means, we functionally say “yes” to the invasion of our hearts by grace.

God doesn’t force Himself on us. That is why that “yes” is necessary.


#15

I’m not trying to be a smarty-pants by saying this, but this is similar to the supposed Bible error lists we see made by people who approach the bible much like a rookie butcher approaches a pig–there are aspects that are indeed correct, but the whole is kind of a mess.

First thing is that a Christian would use the word “covenant” in place of the word “code”. Code merely denotes rules, whereas covenant describes the familial bond God has with his people.

You point out correctly that God chose a minority people, but the strange implication is that it is somehow unacceptable. God’s covenant grows and expands, much like life grows and becomes more complex.

1st Covenant–between God and Man and Woman.
2nd Covenant–between God and Noah and his immediate family.
3rd Covenant–between God and Abraham and his extended family. Expanding to the tribe.
4th Covenant–between God and Moses and his people, or nation.
5th Covenant–between God and David and we expand into a National Kingdom.
6th Covenant–Between God and Jesus and all of humanity.
7th–Covenant–Final eternal Covenant between God and all Creation.

So by using this model of expansion and growth we see it is similar to what we observe in nature, the universe and everything. This explanation does not of course prove it to everyone’s satisfation, but it is an explanation that is not absurd on the face of it.

Scott


#16

Hello An atheist:) :wave: It is faith and reason ,why we believe what we do:) God Bless


#17

[quote=AnAtheist]Because I cannot derive a logical or at least a plausible conclusion from absurd prepositions or illogical methods of deriving those conclusions.
[/quote]

Can you derive logical or at least a plausible explanation of why there are incorruptible bodies of saints several hundred years old? Science couldn’t figure that one out. What about all of the proven eucharistic miracles. Proven miracle by the fact that science had no explanation. Science can not explain everything, but if you put it with faith and reason, all things are possible.

As Chesterton once wrote, “There would be no athiests if there were no God.”


#18

Dear Atheist,

I am a Geologist- The earth is old, but God Is Eternal - and he is quite strange to us meager humans. I for one am glad he loved us so much as to save us and give us guidance on how to live our lives while letting us retain our free will so we could say silly things like you. Yet he still loves you.

Man that book he gave us is phenominal, give it a read, slowly, and you may benefit.


#19

[quote=AnAtheist]Yes, that is exactly the point! What is more plausible? And why?
[/quote]

An interesting question to try and answer. I have a different question to ask. I am interested in your answer. Once I have it and understand it, I will try to answer your question.

Question: Is the world (reality, the Universe, creation) fundamentally good or fundamentally bad? Is it acceptable or unacceptable?

-Jim


#20

[quote=trogiah]Question: Is the world (reality, the Universe, creation) fundamentally good or fundamentally bad? Is it acceptable or unacceptable?
[/quote]

Good one. But I don’t think they believe good and evil really exist. If they do, I’d sure like to see how they define it.


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