I have a concern and was wondering if others share it. Theists, whether that be Muslims (Sunni or Shiite), Christian (Catholic or Protestant), or Jewish (Orthodox or Reformed) seem to spend most of their apologetic time and effort at trying to convince each other that they are wrong. I will acknowledge that there are drastic theological differences. However, I feel that we share many things, if not most moral teachings. Why can not theists of different hues work together to create a more just world. The moral codes of all the great religions are from God, because they are natural laws. Let us uphold these moral teachings. This ecumenical moral defense strategy should be top-down and bottom-up. The top-down element is already going on. For example the Vatican just signed an agreement with the Arab League “towards cooperation on peace and stability, as well as the fostering of inter-religious dialogue”. Another example of the movement is the “Common Word” movement. I am suggesting that we also work from the bottom-up. Let Catholic meet with Reform Jews and Shiite Muslims meet with evangelicals. The purpose of these small, local meeting should be to identify common views on morality and set a local action plan to push this agenda. We do not need to compromise our own tradition-specific laws. We can agree to disagree on issues like polygyny and prayer. However, we can agree, I think, on many issues like euthanasia, homosexuality, and the general hedonism that has engulfed modern man.
I don’t think there would be such a problem with the muslims if they didn’t take our teachings, scramble them up, and then tell us that we have to believe what they believe in. There is not even an attempt by them to understand others.
When they have a Quran that tells them to kill, or subjugate, others if they don’t want to believe in islam - then that is a problem.
In their lands, they force their sharia laws on others which are laws based on their Quran, hadiths and sunna which allow NO freedoms, or rights, to others. And we are finding in our lands that mosques and madrassas are teaching hatred and the same things that cause all the strife between them and others while claiming that they are the victims.
Their Sharia laws establish slavery as an institution with no end to it, and women as 1/2 of a man. Others (non-muslims) have no rights unless they pay extortion payments and even then it is allowed to do anything to them since there is nothing to stop atrocities against them by Muslims.
They do meet with others and even the Pope said they are not serious about discussion. And why is that? Because they are intolerant, and think that Islam is the only religion therefore they should not concede anything - not even tolerance and understanding towards others.
This isn’t only a problem between Christians and Muslims, but also every other religion, and Islam.
This ‘why can’t we all get along’ Rodney King diatribe is nice but you have to have willing players.
The moral codes of Islam are not the same. In Sharia laws it is indeed ok to do whatever one wants to others. In Islam it is indeed ok to deceive us when they are in our lands that they consider the ‘lands of war’ or dar al harb until they establish sharia laws and subjugate us. When they say that they believe in the same things - they only are refering to what Muslims do to each other - NOT what Muslims do to non-muslims. They will not tell you this because that is part of the deception, or what is known as taqiyya and/or kithman. ‘War is deception’, per Muhammad.
Because Christians are, supposedly, mandated to convert everybody else?
This might be a problem for some, but the Catholics I know don’t openly do this only some Protestants that I know. While Muslims don’t really care if you convert although they do ‘invite you to Islam’. The other options in Islam are death, or subjugation. Either one is fine with them.
There are only three options for peace with Muslims - death, conversion or subjugation.
While Christians, even the Protestants, don’t go and kill others or subjugate them. And the Muslims who say this is not true - maybe you should read this article. There are many articles out there about this on the web, I am just posting this one.
I hadn’t thought of this as, yet another, ‘Muslims ate my hamster!’ thread.
It was a question about ‘apologetic time’.
It is interesting that a Christian shoot down the idea (First) by slamming Islam. As for me, I am willing to work with ANYONE to uphold things like the right to life.
As the originator of the thread, I do solemnly attest that this was not intended to be a “Muslims ate my hamster” (btw, that is hilarious) :clapping: I guess the intention was to start a discussion about how and if theist can cooperate to combat the emergence of moral relativism and hedonism. This question occurred to me after reading a book about Friedrich Nietzsche. The world seems to be going to hell in a handbasket and all theists seem to do is castigate others, outside of their tradition. Surely, we can agree on some things, right?
and Kaninchen’s posts
…As you two slam me for just stating what I see as a problem in discussing this sort of thing. But, that is ok because it is cool to do such things and not admit the truth or hide your head in the sand.
Do you guys even read the news? I am not talking the mainstream news who are in major appeasement mode either. I am talking about the news of persecution of christians in Muslim countries? The persecution of Jews, Hindus and Buddhists in Muslim countries.
The right to life in islam?! Not even their own Muslim women have that right if some Muslim man rapes her without a circus of 4 others for her defense, or if he wants to have her killed by just saying it was an ‘honor killing’, etc.
Oh, you will get a discussion on this but it won’t be anything near a truthful display.
We are the ones who have accepted Muslims into our country knowing little of Islam and still accept them into our country. And they are the ones who have an ideology as I stated before.
Why not accept Muslims? We accept cafeteria Catholics! Which is worse, he who knows the truth and shuns it or he who is ignorant? Also, if you did not intend to contribute to the discussion (based on the initial entry), why even waste your time? By the water, the Catholic Church DOES feel that dialog and engagement is beneficial (see the recent agreements and discussion the Vacitan has had with Muslims). Are you picking and choosing which of the Church’s stances you prefer?
Well, not exactly slam, more shrug. I mean, just how many ‘Naughty, naughty, naughty Muslims!’, ‘Muslims are very, very naughty!’, ‘Naughty Muslim ate my hamster!’, threads does CAF need each week? Is nobody allowed to talk about other topics without having to bow obsequience to the topic of the naughtiness of Muslims?
The topic of the sheer naughtiness of Muslims is not exactly a novelty here.