There is a new steath heresy, is it invading the Church? HRM

Catholics like to explore their Jewish roots…but,
This is a call to all prayer warriors. Please have compassion for any who dare to post. I think places like CA need to be on the forefront of these issues, like the guardian Canadian geese while others feed in the field. I only recently have had contact with this heretical group, and it all starts so innocently.

I see that a couple of other members over this forum have had contact with them and it can be devastating to families. They have tried to ask questions of Apologists on this site and have received answers that leaves the member with the knowledge that CA doesn’t have any knowledge of this growing heresy.

It is called Hebrew Roots Movement. No, it’s not about our Catholic roots in Judaism, it’s not about Jews for Jesus, and it’s not about us Christians loving, learning, and respecting our Judean and Israelite roots. That’s what makes it so stealth. It all starts out so innocent.

It leaves people non-Christian, because Christianity has become so pagan. (you find out later that it’s because of Constantine and the evil Catholic Church (don’t ya know)) You can’t even say the word “Christian” (because they didn’t say it back then). And, you can’t be Jewish because of Yeshua (You can’t say Jesus).

There’s much, much more. They are caught in a spiritual limbo between Christianity and Judaism, yet they live a strictly Jewish lifestyle. And, I mean strict (as they know it)

It gets deeper and deeper, and I’m going to be blunt here, I think it leads to spiritual death. I’ve seen it in them.

Best, Patrick

Coming to a Church near you? It’s gotten big enough that even USA Today has written an article about it.

Best, Patrick

The vast number of Catholic saints and their (documented!) sanctified lives ought to be sufficient proof of the Catholic Church’s authenticity.

Sounds very much like Messianic Jews to me…teetering on JW or SDA. There will always be false “prophets” trying to lead astray the weak and unlearned; Scripture is clear on that point. I think that CA is at the forefront of these types of issues. If you do a basic search in the “Library”, you will find a seemingly endless array of apologetics on just about every topic imaginable. We, the faithful, need to do a better job using these tools to defend the Faith and help educate our friends and family in a charitble way.

That’s the bad part. They seem to perhaps want to be Messianic Jews. A friend of my sons recently moved into our guest house. He said she was some sort of Jewish Christian. She won’t admit to Christian. They don’t follow any Christian holidays. Christianity is pagan.

Her family has spent last week in town. We spent an evening one on one. CA has nothing on this. They deny the Trinity. It ends up with the very divinity of Christ being in question.

The Greek New Testament can’t be trusted. Supposedly, somewhere in Israel, they have the entire original Hebrew New Testament. We just don’t know about it. They essentially corrupt the whole of the New Testament, except I guess for those few who understand it.

Every time I tried to discuss some things out of the bible, she laid her hands on it and said that I didn’t understand it. I didn’t understand it because I didn’t understand the Old Testament.

Matthew 5:17 supposedly doesn’t mean that the Old Covenant is ‘fulfilled’ , it means that we need a more strict adherence to the “Law”

There’s much more.


I prayed for patience out when we were talking and continued to do so during. I attempted to remain calm while trying to confess my faith. Every time I got near to making points she became very anti-Catholic and began to rattle off what seemed likeed chapter titles from some anti Catholic book i may have once myself had on the book shelf.

The cymbal clanged so loudly, I couldn’t get a message across. And, I wanted to remain calm.

Several times however, I bluntly said, this type of division quite simply isn’t from the Holy Spirit.

And, I know of 2 members who have sought answers thru CA apologists, they didn’t seem to know what they were referring to.
Best, Patrick

This is a Protestant heresy not a Catholic one. There is a difference between understanding our Jewish roots as Catholics and this. Someone joining this as Catholic would be leaving the Church.

One way we could counter it might be to present the true (and fascinating) connections to our Jewish heritage, which are right there in the New Testament accounts - in the Gospels, in Acts, and the rest. Also I’m sure in many of the Church Fathers’ writings. I enjoy learning these things and feeling a connection to Jewish people today but without feeling any need to pull away from my Catholic Faith. :twocents: Also focus on how our Popes of recent times, including our current Holy Father Francis, are meeting with Jewish leaders, making pilgrimages to the Holy Land, etc. :thumbsup:

Agreed, but… Catholics have weak sheep also.

We all pray for better Catechized brothers and sisters. And, our young people, like my son for instance, who is a very good friend of hers.

Best, Patrick

I told them that the one in Moses position today, and in his seat today had a name, and his name was “Francis”. That drew ire. I shouldn’t have went there.

This is basically a resurrection of the ancient Judaizer heresy delt with in the New Testament, especially the council in Acts 15.

And the guy who founded this movement, from the article posted above, appears to be just another dufus without any real scriptural or theological knowledge. “Hey, Jesus kept all of the Law so why aren’t we?”

He also seems overwhelmed by his newly discovered Jewish roots.

It gets very much deeper and more convoluted!

The wife is obviously the one who led the family into this out of Methodism. She kept asking me what I was going to do when they rebuilt the temple? They were going to have sacrifices there again? (I’m not so much a student of end time theology) But, she asked what are you going to do then? I responded… “nothing…I don’t need to”

She said Yeshua was going to be the chief priest then, I said He already was.

I told her that Jesus (oh, I can’t say Jesus) already ministered in the heavenly tabernacle unendingly, and I already partook of the Heavenly Gift, and Jesus (Yeshua) was our sole mediator because He transended the abyss of the Old temple altar (Hebrew 9) and we dined at an altar in which the Hebrews had no right to eat. (Hebrews 13).

So, I’m there already. She put her hands on the pages of my bible, told me it was wrong, that I didn’t understand, and that everything that I said would make God a liar. And she said God is not a liar.

Best, Patrick

Sounds like this person has ursuped too much authority and control.

Just tell her that she’s the one who is wrong. If she’s in your guest house, probably best to just drop religion althogether and leave it on a landlord/tenant basis.

Yes, there are a lot of “weak sheep” However, even for a weak or ill-informed Catholic, I think this sort of thing would have more appeal in evangelical circles than Catholic since it leads into some pretty anti-Catholic stuff. There is a hunger to go back or look at Christianity’s Jewish roots. I think as Protestantism as split off from one another, they have moved quite far from their beginning roots and understanding of it. If one understands the Passover Seder, one can see and understand the current Catholic Mass and the things that the priest does etc. But as Protestants split and have moved away from liturgical worship and understanding, there is an emptiness and missing pieces. Before I became Catholic, i attended a Jews for Jesus demonstration and explanation of the Passover seder. It ignited a hunger in me to look back at history and for a more authentic representation of this. Thankfully, I found that in the Catholic Mass. I think these are the types of things one can point to and look at in dealing with people that get caught up in this movement.

That is exactly what it is. The are deceivingly being mislead. They live completely by Jewish Law and Jewish custom as best as they know them. They go to Israel alot, but can’t stay because they are not Jewish.

Their 30 something German/ Irish Gentile American daughter does everything she can to get back there as often as she can. She has to find a Jewish husband, and shes not getting any younger.

When you talk to them, they know they’re not Jewish, but they reject Christianity because it became pagan. You don’t know all this at first. They look for the coming Messiah.

They are caught in a maize that doesn’t make any sense.

Best, Patrick

I completely agree with you. I think one thing I said may have took root. But, as we all know, these things can take time.

She was caught up in the temple being rebuilt and the sacrifices being started again. I told her that I understood many of the different sacrifices of the Wilderness Tabernacle. The priests had to eat the sacrifice. I said today the laity as a common priesthood, or royal priesthood, we all partake of that Heavenly Gift, “the same, yesterday, today, and forever”, otherwise we wouldn’t need to be a priesthood, laity and all.

Old only the priests, and now we all eat…she had her hands on my bible but her mouth went silent… I can only hope.

Best, Patrick

Is this a predominantly black movement? Cos I’ve met some folks who consider themselves Black Israelites. It’s rather silly, really.

These people are white, from Northern Montana. All the leaders that I have seen on websites are white.

This isn’t a “New stealth heresy invading the Church.” It’s nothing new. It’s just an online expression of Messianic Judaism, that’s all.

Let’s not call out the Spanish Inquisition. There is no need for drama. Remain calm, set a perfect example, give the reasons for the hope that is within you and carry on. If people won’t listen then shake the dust off your feet. That’s all.



I disagree with you completely. Now, if you were talking about “Christian Hebrew Roots Movement” which is completely different, then I would agree with you. Generally, before wise people make statements like you just made, they actually look into it.

The “Spanish Inquisition” straw man is highly disrespectful, and from a suspected Christian no less. It must be difficult from so high up on your perch. A wise man would research and know the difference before making such a condescending post.

Oh wait, a wise man wouldn’t make a condescending post. Neither would a disciple. Know what you are talking about first please.

I have had an extended one experience with it, as have others, this is NOT Messianic Judaism of the past. If you do not have constructive things to offer but only to speak down to people, and out of sheer ignorance, and when you have no idea who you are talking to, then don’t say anything. Thanks in advance for your kind and gracious cooperation.
And, take your self righteous and condescending attitude somewhere else. Its not appreciated.

Best to you and yours


Jews for Jesus is, what I would call, a highly respected expression of Messianic Judaism and they call themselves that. They look at themselves as a resource for Jewish Christians.

One of their senior writers has written extensively warning people of the troubles of the Hebrew Roots Movement, and, that it’s not them. They have many of these articles posted on their website.

Here is one of them: The difference between Roses and Thorns

Several people have posted on this site about this movement and Jewish customs in general. Many of them have had families severely impacted. (Edited)

It is not of the Holy Spirit, and he did not lead anyone where they need to go.

Best to you and your family, Pat

For those who want more information, without actually going to the various websites of the movement:

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