They hate us, they really hate us

My twist on Sally Field’s words.

About 10-12 years ago I went to a meeting called Theology on Tap. Some of the research I did beforehand led me to believe it was just another one of the many gimmicks some in the Church have tried in recent years to make the Church more relevent for younger Catholics. Nothing I witnessed at the several meetings I went to made me change this initial opinion. My purpose for going was to spread the word about a new chapter of Una Voce several Catholics were starting in the city where we lived.

Anyway, at this meeting there was a nun in attendance who apparently was the diocesan coordinator for TOT. There was nothing in her outward appearance that would distinguish her as a Catholic nun. At the begining of the meeting they asked attendees if they had a good joke to tell to kind of ‘loosen things up’. I’ve been in sales for many years and always have a good repertoire of jokes. I ended up winning the ‘competition’ for which I was given the prize of picking a free Catholic gift at the front of the meeting room when the meeting concluded. They then made several announcements and asked attendees if we had any announcements we wanted to make.

It took the opportunity to make my announcement and give an explanation about the new chapter of Una Voce, which is a worlwide lay organization founded in 1964 which assists the bishops of the world in promoting the celebration of the TLM. I then went on to explain that the TLM was the Mass the Church celebrated worldwide prior to the NO Mass being promulgated in 1969 by Pope Paul VI. I strongly suspected the reaction I’d get from the nun prior to making my announcement and I ended up being correct in my suspicions.

If looks could kill I’d have been dead on the spot. She made sure to ‘correct’ me that the new Mass was promulgated by the bishops of the world not Pope Paul VI.

After the meeting concluded I went to pick out my prize and a young woman was asking the nun about my announcement and about the TLM since she obviously wasn’t familiar with it. The nun didn’t see me standing there. She replied to the young lady in a rather animated manner that the TLM was no longer used by the Church. She further stated angrily that when she heard me make my announcement, she " got angry and wanted to scream ".

This is one of several similar instances I’ve witnessed in addition to the many similar occurances I’ve been told and read about in traditional Catholic publications.

I’ve got my own theory why some Catholics literally hate the traditions of the Church. To other traditional Catholics, do you have any theories for this hatred?

People should try to worship God rather than worship worship.

One of the toughest lessons of the christian life is to realize the PEOPLE are not our enemies, regardless of how badly they treat us. Charitably speaking, she most likely doesn’t hate you or “us.” She hates something she experienced in the past. She might even mistake you as being the ‘same’ sort of person that created that experience in the past. Maybe it was abuse by a priest back in the TLM days and she conflates the two somehow. Maybe she assumes that the old liturgy created some mean old crusty pastor who refused to fix the the boiler in the convent properly or safely remove the asbestos. Who knows?

The best way to discredit her hostility is to be the light of Christ, turn the other cheek and don’t respond in kind. Who knows, she might even see her mistake and realize that neither you nor other catholics who yearn for clear teaching on sin and Grace and undiluted liturgy are evil after all. If not, it matters less all the time. Her generation is nearly all retired now and because of her attitude and those like her, the next generation is so ignorant of catholic liturgical and devotional traditions that they generally have no innate hostility towards it.

The times are about to get interesting. Don’t get mad, just lift your lamp.

Perfect example of what the OP is talking about. I see you running around the TC forum posting the exact same sentiment in numerous threads.

:clapping: Great advice.

For the record, the Theology on Tap meetings in my city are quite faithful to the magesterium, and yet they’re still popular with local college students and have actually been fairly successful. Since we’re in Alabama, we’ve even had some special guests, like Father Mitch Pacwa.

I should also mention that the Benedictine sister that I work with at school wears ordinary clothes with no distinguishing features, and is one of the most orthodox nuns that I know.

:thumbsup:

The young adults in our parish started what is called “Theology on Tap”. It hasn’t really got going yet. We have a small group of young Catholics past high school who want to meet with other Catholics for socialization and to discuss their Catholic Faith. My 23 year old daughter has attended the first meeting at Pizza Hut and our pastor was there too. He is a wonderful pastor (and he brought the TLM to our parish.) Apparently there were some young people from neighboring parishes that were there also. One drove from an hour away. Because of the growing interest, our pastor has recently hired a new Co-ordinator (not sure proper title) for young adult ministry because he wants to make sure that they receive proper guidance in discussing their Faith. I guess it depends on who you have as a leader whether it ends up being a good program or not.

There really is a huge opportunity looming in the near future. The angry and hostile group of liturgical and doctrinal experimenters are almost all early Boomers or even older. They’ve failed to transfer their hostility to virtually ANY of the following generations. Later generations are either utterly ignorant of historic catholic liturgy and devotional life or have already discovered it and are curious about it. Just about anybody I meet under 35 (I’m 40) who is interested in church participation at ALL is either open to traditional catholic devotions and liturgy or already conversant in it.

True. But there is a place for reverence.

A person can adore God in a pile of dirt if their heart is truly open, even without knowing the Latin word for dirt.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Theology on Tap is run at several places, several orthodox people run them.

But it’s probably easier to throw on the tinfoil hat and base everything off of a couple of people and make sweeping generalizations.

Unless it’s Latin on Tap, then it’s a winner!

I hope you’ll forgive me, I’m new to the Catholic faith after all, but some of these posts bother me. I’m open to traditions of the Church, I love the tradition in fact, or would likely not have become Catholic! I’m open to embracing older devotions (if only I could find the time! Still trying to plan time for a daily Rosary devotion), but at some point i have to agree with the poster who said worship God, not worship itself. I understand a little Latin, but not enough to know what’s going on and meaningfully participate in a TLM. And as a convert from Baptist/non-denomenationalism, maybe my perspective on this ought to at least be worth considering: a TLM would be very unwelcoming to me and any others not fluent in Latin (pretty much everyone on Earth in other words!), and, not being able to participate or understand anything in the mass would probably have meant I would not have become Catholic…there is nothing magical about Latin people. And I’m all for a reverent, traditional liturgy! But there is nothing base or lowly about conducting worship in a language people actually know and speak. Latin is a beautiful sounding language, but it it a human language, and nothing more. It did not come from on high, humans made Latin, just like English or any other language…and Latin is a DEAD language at that…I’m not getting why this has become such a divisive issue. If you like a TLM, fine…but taking on airs about nuns who aren’t in formal habits all the time or people worshiping in the language they actually know and speak seems more than a little judgmental and formalist. I seem to remember Jesus taking issue with this sort of legalism in his day. Flame away, I’m sure I’ve asked for it!

:mad:

No one who attends and loves the TLM is “worshiping worship” - and to suggest that is the case is insulting and misplaced. The Holy Father has said it is just as valid as the NO Mass, and for a nun, or anyone for that matter, to suggest otherwise is horrific. The sacrifice of the Mass IS the sacrifice of the Mass — regardless if it is NO or TLM. No one is “worshiping worship” - only wanting to worship as they desire. MAJOR difference.

~Liza

Libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.

TLM folks seem to be taking this as an attack. Did you mean it that way? I took it as a double edged sword, since those inimically opposed to the EF are often at least as smugly condescending as the EF enthusiasts, just in the opposite direction.

Seems to me that if we take the quote to heart, we’ll attend the style of valid and approved liturgy that we each feel called to without hostility to those who choose the other. I’ve never been to an EF, but I have sympathy for those who prefer it. Why shouldn’t it be available if they want it?

People should try to worship God rather than worship worship.

Stylites, you are right on target! :wink:

Speaking for myself, as someone who, at least on this board is considered “ultra-liberal”(which I find extremely amusing since most in my Diocese consider me too conservative!! :hmmm:)
I do not “hate” traditions, nor does anyone that I know.

Actually, I do not “hate” anything, (except maybe liver, but that’s a different story!;))

What bothers me, saddens me, angers me and frustrates me is threads like this that put an “us vs. them” mentality to our Church. If you find the TLM to fit your spirituality better, I have no problem with that, and I hope that you have access to one. However, to say that I 'hate" you because of it is quite the stretch. Just another one of my issues with many of the more “traditionallly minded” people I have met- the mentality that if you are not with them 100%, you are against them and the Church.

So sad…:frowning:

I don’t think that theology on tap is the problem here
unfortunately the attitude of this particular nun was not very charitable and very rude

we need to respect the Holy Father and Summorum Pontificum, even if a person does not prefer the Extraordinary Form of the Mass they can show respect for the Holy Father’s wishes on the matter… not to mention the Mass as it was celebrated for centuries in the Church.

If it was holy then, it’s holy now.

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