They know that it is wrong, that is why they hide it


#1

I see this faulty logic in tons of threads…usually referring to pornography, masterbation…and more recently, going to strip clubs.

While it is true that they may hide it b/c they know it is wrong, the more obvious reason is that they hide is that they don’t want to get in trouble, yelled at, or otherwise scolded…b/c they know (or suspect) their wife will not approve.

I quit smoking several years ago. Last year, we were on vacation with my family and while the women were shopping, my brothers and I camped out at a bar to drink and watch some sports. My brother still smokes and I bummed a cigarrette off him and smoked for the first time in years (it was really pretty awful…I can’t imagine going back). My wife showed up while I was in the middle of that cigarrette and I quickly put it out and pushed the ashtray toward my brother. I hid it from her. Why? … b/c I didn’t want to hear here give me **** and go off on me about how I am going to start smoking again. It wasn’t that I think smoking is sinful or immoral.

Similarly, I think men who hide things like pornography, attending strip clubs, etc. often do not necessarily see those things as wrong, but they hide it to avoid conflict/ getting in trouble.

Please note that I am not saying any of the above are not wrong (except smoking). Nor am I saying that some men may indeed hide things b/c they know that those things are wrong. I am simply saying that just b/c someone hides something form their spouse does not necessarily mean they think that activity is wrong.

So a statement like “One some level he knows it is wrong and that is why he hides it” is not necessarily true.

That is all. Carry on.


#2

That’s true to some extent I think. I think everyone has done that at some point, haven’t we? Omit information because we don’t want to ‘hear it’ from other people. It’s not a male issue, it’s a person issue, at least I think so, I don’t think there is any one human fault that men have that women don’t also have, do you?

I think though that on some level deep down even, at least I’d hope, that a grown man…a grown married man (OR woman, could easily be a woman too ), would know that porn, strip clubs, yadda yadda, are wrong. It’s hard not to know that because it’s against our very nature. At some point the man (or woman, it could be a woman just as easily) has lied to themselves over and over to make it seem ok in their mind.

I think lying because you don’t want to ‘hear it’ form your spouse is also a pretty bad excuse for lying, regardless of whether or not they ‘feel’ the act was wrong. It’s still wrong to lie isn’t it?


#3

Rico S, are you saying that people should be willing to masturbate in public?


#4

There is a difference between a “little white lie” and an out right sin. Porn, strip clubs and the like–are all forms of adultery. Last time I checked–and I check often–adultery is a sin. A real man should have no fear of “getting yelled at” by his wife. If she were cheating on you by looking at other men,wouldn’t you want to burst out in anger? If you love your wife/girlfriend, and God is within the marriage, than there is no need for anything or anyone else in the relationship.

Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard it said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already commited adultery with her in his heart.


#5

But isn’t it true that those who scold others for doing wrong only scold because they love and care for the well being of the person?


#6

That’s kinda what I was getting at by ‘no fear’.


#7

One of the reasons people don’t like to be corrected is guilt. Another reason is pride. And a third reason, due to pride, is that the person overexaggerates what he believes will happen should he get corrected.


#8

Shanny:

You see, I just disagree with this. I think that a very large segment of society views things that occur between consenting adults as inherently not wrong. There are couples who actively participate together in things like pornography and strip clubs and I do not believe there is a conscious belief that what they are doing is wrong.

If you are saying that on some subconcious level, they know it is wrong b/c God writes his laws into our hearts…well, I don’t see much point in arguing against that. I am just saying the motivation to hide these sorts of things from our spouses is not necessarily b/c a person believes, on any conscious level, that what they are doing is wrong.

I think lying because you don’t want to ‘hear it’ form your spouse is also a pretty bad excuse for lying, regardless of whether or not they ‘feel’ the act was wrong. It’s still wrong to lie isn’t it?

I wasn’t making a value judgement either way about hiding things from his/her spouse, I was simply pointing out the faulty logic that is often used when these topics come up on this forum.


#9

I think you missed the point of my post.

I wasn’t trying to argue that any of these things are not wrong. And I don’t think how you define “a real man” has any relevance as to why people in general hide things from their spouse.


#10

YES!! Finally someone gets it!! :thumbsup:

You see, my argument is that husbands do not necessarily hide certain activiities from their spouse b/c he thinks that the activity is wrong; but they often do so so as to avoid the “wrath” of their wife b/c they know (or suspect) the wife will not approve of such activities…

THEREFORE…we should all be willing to masterbate in public!

Makes sense to me.


#11

I just want to point out that I never said that guilt (or the implication of what they are doing is wrong) cannot be a factor…just that it isn’t necessarily so.


#12

Yes there are a ton of different reasons that people keep things from their spouse other than thinking an activity is wrong.
It is easier to beg forgiveness then ask for permission as the saying goes. If you let you’re spouse know about an activity they might not approve of, then there is always the possibility they will want you to stop. It just easier to go ahead with smoking, drinking, or a crazy purchase and then hide it. If you get caught then you just say something like, well I really didn’t think you would mind, dear. Or maybe, I really thought we needed a new bass boat, next time I’ll check first.


#13

“Real Men” keep it in their pants until the appropriate time. I can’t believe that as a Catholic you are advocating masturbation. It sounds to me like you’re trying to get approval from the forum for sin that you’re already committing. Backwards thinking.


#14

So you are saying that men hide these things because they aren’t mature enough to handle the consequences. Got it.


#15

It is POSSIBLE the men hide these things b/c they do not want to face the consequences of having their spouse angry, upset, etc. I did not comment on whether doing so for this reason is immature or not.


#16

You have missed my point completely. Really you have.


#17

this is interesting…I want to ask something…Many are kind of stating that they don’t really believe they are doing wrong, but then why again would they hide it from their wives/spouses/gfs/bfs-etc if they don’t feel that there is something wrong about it that their partners would not approve of? Is there some truth in knowing that if you know that something is not approved of then it means it could be a wrong thing???

I know that when I was growing up, and I was in my rebellious years, 17, and I ditched school-nothing I am proud of- and I knew that if I got caught I would have to hear my mother and I didn’t want to hear her so I would avoid her as much as possible and hide myself from her so that I didn’t have to confront her, but that’s because I knew it was wrong…It wasn’t sinful but it was wrong…In some small subconscious effort of my brain and heart telling me it was wrong for me to do that I would feel guilty and not want to hear it because deep down, again, I knew it was wrong…

Therefore I believe that many of the people whom do not want to admit they are wrong or it’s sinful for that matter are just doing that, being in denial of what they might be feeling deep down inside even ignoring whatever feeling their minds and hearts are telling them, thus causing them to justify themselves as to making themselves believe that their spouses/gfs/bfs etc “think” that what they are doing is wrong without them really believing that what they are doing-porno-strip clubs- etc is actually wrong and making it seem like they are just hiding to avoid confrontation over something the other partner believes is wrong when they feel it is ok to actually do them…

Well that’s just my 2 cnts…


#18

Ok lets assume they don’t know it’s morally wrong. Sad but possible.

They DO know that it offends or hurts the spouse, but they choose to do it anyway. So, they’re hiding it because they know the spouse will be angry, not because deep down they know better.

How is that reason for lying any better?

Maybe if the spouse giving the ‘wrath’ would just lighten up, they wouldn’t have to lie? Oh, I’ve heard that one a time or two.


#19

Yeah actually a friend of mine’s husband says that to her all the time “well if you would quit bitching and nagging at me maybe I wouldn’t hide things from you or keep doing things behind your back!!!”

I was like HUH? What in the world??? I was furious and she just sat there like Ok…

I don’t know how to help her…I know how that feels for someone to tell you things like this…You know…And you really don’t want to tell her LEAVE HIS SORRY ***!!! because hello they are married, so I just keep my anger and frustration to myself and just be there for her…:shrug: What else is there to say or do?


#20

My goodness man, read what he wrote, not what you want to hear. Sheeeeeeeesh. Reading conprehension is a much overlook skill anymore.

To the point, my wife has over the years had emotional attachments to some (needy) men that I have found hurtful; they have taken away what I feel is mine alone. Not physically, but emotionally. She knows how I feel, yet keeps up one relationship because she can’t bear to stop. So, she hides it from me. She thinks I don’t know about the emails and calls and meetings. None of this is wrong as he is a monk and her spiritual advisor; they are not talking about anything inappropriate. Still, I know that she has inappropriate emotional attachments to him and she knows it too, or she would not hide it (or, actually, try to hide it).

I have given up trying to ask her to stay away from him, so her hiding it is sort of a kindness; at least she’s not rubbing my nose in it.


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