This could unite the two major religions :)

I am not sure if this is the right part of the forum to post but I just wanted to point it out.
It is a website called Jews for Jesus. Wouldn’t it be nice.:thumbsup:

jewsforjesus.org/

My opinions on this Christian group would be easy to guess but I think you’ll also find that Catholics tend to prefer the ‘Hebrew Catholics’ to this particular fundamentalist Protestant sect.

It is a Christian group and it is not very popular in Israel.
There is no chance of uniting Jews and Catholics into one religion, because their respective beliefs are mostly incompatible.

Apparently G-d preferred a variety of religions since there are over 4000 of them worldwide. Let us then be united in mutual love and respect. This, I think, is the worthy challenge that G-d created for us.

Apparently it is Man that prefers a variety of religions not God. Jesus prayed that we would ALL be ONE in Him. How can God prefer something that does NOT even agree about His teachings?? I agree we need love and respect for each other but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and no matter how hard we try to make it OUR kind of “truth.” Jesus said. “I am the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life, come follow ME.” That is what will UNIT us in Faith. God Bless, Memaw

I suppose it rather depends on whether you’re interesting in talking to people from other religions - talking in capitals does tend to lead to crossness or switching-off, I suspect.

I believe it was Kanichen who once made the observation that I have never forgot.

It went something like this.

“Being Jewish is not being Christian minus Jesus”

I’ve come to respect and appreciate that, though Christianity came from Judaism, they are two very different religions.

More like diametrically opposed.

We hold a divine/human being to be the center of our faith. They reject that a divine/human being can exist.

We hold that the religious law, which they hold as the center of faith, is superseded.

We claim that the divine/human being at the center of faith is also the Messiah of their faith, which they of course reject.

There is no way that the two religions can be unified, absent some sea-changes in understandings.

ICXC NIKA

I’ve heard of them but I don’t much about them. What makes them fundamentalist?

While on the surface it might seem so, but this is a Protestant proselytizing group.

Catholics with a Jewish heritage or “Hebrew Catholics” being in full-communion with the Magisterium are against proselytizing of Jews. (For those unfamiliar with the difference between evangelizing and proselytizing, evangelizing is when you share your convictions among those who are welcoming your witness or inquiring, and proselytizing is when you actively go out to convert others because you doctrinally believe that others are lost in a false religion and need to be educated on this point and converted lest they be judged adversely for refusing to join your group.)

Jews for Jesus believe in Sola Scriptura and recognize neither Apostolic Tradition or Jewish oral Tradition as holding any weight by comparison in their theology. They generally hold that Jews need to become Christians in order to be saved, whereas Catholicism teaches that the Jews will be saved by the Messiah while acknowledging that revelation has not specifically spelled out dogmatic rules for how this will be carried out.

:thumbsup:

You guys above have said it all. There is no reason for Jews or Catholics to have any positive feelings about this missionary organization. In fact, I believe their doctrines are foreign and contradictory even to regular Protestantism.

I wouldn’t call them particularly fundamentalist–more like in between moderate Evangelicals and Fundamentalists on that continuum.

As far as I know, their theology tends to be pretty standard Baptist theology, which certainly makes them part of regular Protestantism.

Historically, Catholicism did not allow Jewish converts to Christianity to retain any Jewish practice, considering it a mortal sin. (That can be seen in the Twelfth Ecumenical Council/Fourth Lateran Council, The Council of Florence, and earlier in Aquinas’ ST.) As far as I know, it’s been a fairly recent development within any form of Christianity to allow, and even encourage, Jewish Christians to bring their patrimony with them if they are converts. In that, I’ll agree with Moses that Jews for Jesus represents a form of Protestantism that is unlike most of what Christianity has allowed for the past two millennia.

And that’s also why I have mixed feelings about them. I think one thing they’ve gotten right is that they played an early role in allowing Jewish converts to Christianity to continue any form of Jewish practice.

I believe that Jews for Jesus is a non-profit organization going back to the 1970’s, founded by a gentleman, Moshe Rosen, who converted to Christianity from Judaism. The group is evangelical in their Christian theology, and pretty aggressive in their mission to convert Jews. I don’t know of any denomination that is enamored of their theology or their purpose.

Messianic Jews, on the other hand, are a broad category of converted Jews who keep Jewish customs while believing in Jesus. They pretty much want to have one foot in each tradition. And of course, they believe Jesus to be the Jewish Messiah. Jews, of course, tend to disagree.

I don’t know much about Hebrew Catholics. I suppose they would fall under the Messianic Jew category, only practicing Roman Catholicism rather than a Protestant one.

I do know individuals who claim to be Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews. It is uncomfortable for me to accept their claims and practices. I think that once you convert to a practicing faith, you should embrace that faith rather than trying to morph separate and distinct beliefs and practices.

I don’t understand why people make this distinction.

A Jew can be a christian.

But what is a Jew?

Most people seem to think of Rabbinic Judaism (which is younger than christianity).

But weren’t Mary, Paul, James the Just, Simon Peter, Andrew, John the Baptist, Mary etc. all Jews.

Now I’ll even play Devil’s advocate.

What if Jesus wasn’t the messiah but the messiah has yet to come.

What if a young Jewish lad from Romaniote Jewish background called Rae Frizis turns out to be the real Jewish messiah. A lot of Jews accept him, a lot of Jews don’t. After some time the Jewish believers call him Rae the Promised One. During Rae the Promised One’s life they are open for conversion for non-Jews as his teaching are for everyone. After some time someone calls some followers of the Promised One, Promistian to crack a joke at it. Within months, everyone calles them the Promistians. The Jewish persons who didn’t accept Rae Frizis would claim that the Jews who followed Rae Frizis aren’t Jewish, as the Jewish messiah has yet to come.

Those followers of Rae Frizis would still be Jewish. I really don’t know why we should use the definition of the Jewish who refused the Promised One.

Messianic Judaism is a form of Judaism, but it is also a form of christianity. The one doesn’t exclude the other.

But it certainly isn’t the same like most other forms of Rabbinic Judaism.

If you look at Judaism as Rabbinic non-messianic Judaism than I understand why you won’t see them as Jews. But I’m not inclined to argee.

What I do find weird is that lot of christians seem to side with you, given that they believe Jesus was the messiah.

Do you think it’s up to Christians to decide who is a Jew or not?

I agree, Kaninchen.

I was just talking yesterday to a Catholic friend who is of Jewish ancestry. He made a comment that is in line with this, saying that he understands and fully accepts when other Jews debate about whether he can or should still be considered a Jew or not.

“They can do that,” he said, “because they are Jews. But people who are not Jewish, secular or religious, who have not lost relatives in the Holocaust and whose ancestors were not expelled from Spain (he is of Sephardic/Crypto-Jew origin), that I draw the line at.”

In this world of tolerance, it’s up to anyone to decide who is anything.

I don’t know the official position Jews for Jesus has on Catholics but every person I’ve met from that movement was anti-Catholic.

So you basically let Rabbinic Judaism tell you what a Jew is.

This seems like a real anachronistic view.

Weren’t the early christians themselves Jewish and wasn’t Jesus called the king of the Jews?

I don’t know why you would let the Rabbinic Jews decide what is and what isn’t a Jew.
Judaism was a lot more diverse than it is today. So I don’t know why a lot of people keep the trimmed down definition of modern day Rabbinic Judaism. Doesn’t make any sense to me when you look at the history of it all. Then again Rabbinic Judaism does seem to see a lot of other Jewish denomination as not really Jewish.

Whatever the Rabbinic Jews went through doesn’t change anything to what can be considered a Jew if you look at the origins.

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