"This is my Blood"


#1

In the Mass, the wine is always consecrated with this words "This is the chalice of my blood...." That's been done for many centuries. But Matthew says, "This is my blood of the new covenant....."

So would consecration still occur if a priest used the words of institution that Matthew gives (this is my blood) or can only Luke's/Paul's version be used (this is the chalice of my blood)?


#2

Whatever the Church decides is just fine. Jesus said : Whoever hears you (the Church) hears me.


#3

[quote="Dorothy, post:2, topic:337272"]
Whatever the Church decides is just fine. Jesus said : Whoever hears you (the Church) hears me.

[/quote]

Like this reply as it is short and to the point ! Nothing needs to added. :thumbsup:


#4

[quote="Dorothy, post:2, topic:337272"]
Whatever the Church decides is just fine. Jesus said : Whoever hears you (the Church) hears me.

[/quote]

:thumbsup:


#5

Hi COC,

The Mass is not a magic show. Even if the priest did not say the exact words of the rubrics (or the gospel), as long as he intends to do what the Church does, the consecration is valid.

Verbum


#6

[quote="Verbum, post:5, topic:337272"]
Hi COC,

The Mass is not a magic show. Even if the priest did not say the exact words of the rubrics (or the gospel), as long as he intends to do what the Church does, the consecration is valid.

Verbum

[/quote]

Not entirely true.

The requirements for a valid consecration are:

Validly ordained priest
Proper matter
Proper intent
Proper form (the texts approved for use by the Church)

Regarding proper form:

All the texts of the Mass - prayers, responses, Epistles, Gospel - must be according to the norms approved by the Church. Under no circumstances can anything be changed outside of the rules laid down by the Church. This is clearly stated, even in Vatican II.

Sacrosanctum Concilium #22: (1) Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See, and, as laws may determine, on the bishop. (2) In virtue of power conceded by law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of bishops' conferences, legitimately established, with competence in given territories. (3) Therefore no other person, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.

Canon 928 The eucharistic celebration is to be carried out either in the Latin language or in another language, provided the liturgical texts have been lawfully approved.

Inaestimabile Donum #5. "Only the Eucharistic Prayers included in the Roman Missal or those that the Apostolic See has by law admitted, in the manner and within the limits laid down by the Holy See, are to be used. To modify the Eucharistic Prayers approved by the Church or to adopt others privately composed is a most serious abuse."

Be aware that it is possible to invalidate the Mass if the key words of the Eucharistic prayer are not properly performed as previously described. ("This is My Body" and "This is ... My Blood")


#7

[quote="Windmill, post:6, topic:337272"]
Not entirely true.

The requirements for a valid consecration are:

Validly ordained priest
Proper matter
Proper intent
Proper form (the texts approved for use by the Church)

Regarding proper form:

All the texts of the Mass - prayers, responses, Epistles, Gospel - must be according to the norms approved by the Church. Under no circumstances can anything be changed outside of the rules laid down by the Church. This is clearly stated, even in Vatican II.

Sacrosanctum Concilium #22: (1) Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See, and, as laws may determine, on the bishop. (2) In virtue of power conceded by law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of bishops' conferences, legitimately established, with competence in given territories. (3) Therefore no other person, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.

Canon 928 The eucharistic celebration is to be carried out either in the Latin language or in another language, provided the liturgical texts have been lawfully approved.

Inaestimabile Donum #5. "Only the Eucharistic Prayers included in the Roman Missal or those that the Apostolic See has by law admitted, in the manner and within the limits laid down by the Holy See, are to be used. To modify the Eucharistic Prayers approved by the Church or to adopt others privately composed is a most serious abuse."

Be aware that it is possible to invalidate the Mass if the key words of the Eucharistic prayer are not properly performed as previously described. ("This is My Body" and "This is ... My Blood")

[/quote]

Yet it is by God's grace the bread/wine become His Flesh and Blood. So while some verbal or gesture mishaps maybe take place, I think it's safe to say God is the important part.


#8

The Church has judged just how far God's grace extends in sacramental matters. In order for a valid consecration, the Church has identified essential words which cannot be omitted or changed. The Church has authority to do this (keeper of the keys, ability to bind and loose.)

It is true that God is not bound by the sacraments. But the Church has bound certain limits to them so that all may be assured of their validity. God might allow His body and blood if a priest mistakenly omits or changes the essential words - He might - but this uncertainty leads to the judgement that the sacrament is invalid, just as surely invalid as it would be upon potato chips and beer.

To say that intention matters only, this is a heresy because the Church has identified that form, matter, and intent are all essential to confect the sacraments. To say that God's grace matters the most, while this is true, the Church also matters as God's agent on Earth, so we cannot discount her authority in this way.


#9

[quote="CrossofChrist, post:1, topic:337272"]
In the Mass, the wine is always consecrated with this words "This is the chalice of my blood...." That's been done for many centuries. But Matthew says, "This is my blood of the new covenant....."

So would consecration still occur if a priest used the words of institution that Matthew gives (this is my blood) or can only Luke's/Paul's version be used (this is the chalice of my blood)?

[/quote]

From the Synopsis of the Four Gospels:

Matthew: "for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sin"

Mark: "this is the my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many"

Luke: "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood"

I Cor: "This cup is is the new covenant in my blood."

DeDefectibus allows much leeway in the actual words the priest uses. All I can say is that if he doesn't use the prescribed formula word-for-word, he is acting illegally. But if he keeps the meaning intact, it would still be a valid consecration.

the-pope.com/dedefect.html


#10

De Defectibus is such a great document. It is extremely instructive on many aspects of the Eucharist. I hope and pray that it remains required reading in all seminaries to this day.


#11

St. Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologica says that the Evangelists were not handing down the "Forms" of the Sacraments. Even though most of the words are found in scripture. They were telling the story of Jesus! - THE SACRAMENTS: The Form of the Eucharist : Pt. III Q. 78 Art.3 :whistle:


#12

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.