This is not the place for intelligent debate


That I had hoped it could be.

What I see more than anything else is ridicule, hatred and a real lack of charity toward ones neighbors.

Unfortunately, I’ve allowed myself to be drawn into this and have responded in kind.

I apologize for that.

I see unreasoned responses, regurgitation of canned answers (which is what CA really stands for, it would seem), and every idiot with a keyboard clamoring for his or her chance to ignore everything and cough up the same old ****.

People here with a brain and a clue are few and far between, and people with a clue, a brain and the ability to process information reliably as well as articulate a response are almost nonexistent.

As for me, I’m gonna get going.

I have a strong affection for the Roman Catholic Church at it’s best and often consider reverting, but, when I do consider this, all I have to do is wander in here and spend some time among the legions of faithful borg and I quickly return to a place where I am thanking God for liberating me from her.

In this regard, you are performing a valuable service at least to me.

I’ve had my fill for a while, the likelihood of me reverting now is nil again for a while. If I feel the urge to do so again, I may be back.

But, before I go, let me encourage you to break out of your ghetto. You’re imprisoned in a neighborhood you’ve built for yourself. Very few Protestants actually hate you, and you’re doing serious damage to your witness when you behave the way you do and when you high five and laugh at uncharitable jokes made at the expense of others…

It’s not good, it’s not healthy and it’s unchristian.



Bye Steadfast I will miss you. I might not be too far behind you.:thumbsup:


Hate to see you go brother. Although I may not have agreed with all you posted. I have great respect for how you have handled yourself on this forum.

God’s Peace,


I’d hate to see you leave Steadfast. In my opinion, there is more opportunity for intelligent debate/discussions of the issues here than certain other web forums (which shall remain nameless :wink: ). There are some very learned people of faith here, Catholic, Protestant and otherwise. There are some real question marks as well. Then there is everyone in between (I’d put myself in one of the last two classifications discussed). Usually, the discussion is pretty good, although there is a tendency on some topics to deteriorate after af few posts. I think it is still a worthwhile endeavor for learning more about the Catholic faith and letting Catholics learn more about our faith.


Wow! As soon as you apologize, you lay in with the insults. :frowning:


Why do I have a difficult time believing you are sincere? All of these insults seem to speak otherwise.

Another lapse in charity. :frowning: In all honesty, I have seen some monumental voids of charity that eminate from your posts. All of us can be drawn into debates where we say things that we regret. That is the nature of debate.

It might be more beneficial for you if you pray about it.

Hey! I spend a lot of money for internet access! :eek:

On the contrary–the truth is liberating!

That is true. But it seems that those who do–usually visit here. :smiley:



I guess I missed the fireworks. Opposing opinions are fine so long as they are presented as such and can accept that we don’t necessarily agree with them. I personally have not seen as much anti-Catholic rhetoric here as I have on other sites, but this is a Catholic forum.

IF we support a RCC perspective, that is to be expected. Since we consider Protestanism to represent anti-Catholic views by definition, we find it hard to agree with any non-Catholic opinions. Consider that you are entitled to your own wrong opinions, just as we are entitled to ours. Sorry if your stay was not as warm as it should have been.


I’d just be a bit careful about that. Non-Catholic (Protestant or otherwise) does not necessarily translate into ANTI-Catholic. From some of the posts I’ve seen from Catholics here, it appears that a number of folks might believe that to be the case.


This is true. I know many non-Catholics who are not anti-Catholic.


Borg? Ghetto? Canned Answers? Imprisoned? I’m truly sorry that any of us have left you feeling that way. If I were in your shoes, probably the more hardline cases around here would make me feel the same. And yes, unfortunately they tend to be the more frequent and vocal posters. That’s the nature of a lot of internet forums.

At the same time there’s an huge benefit in being around people who are knowledgeable and passionate about the faith, and not willing to tolerate a wussified, watered-down, Christianity- or Catholicism-lite. And I’ve found a goodly proportion of genuine, warmhearted and friendly types around here.

Perhaps, like chocolate (or more accurately, like chilli spice), this place does need to be consumed in moderation :slight_smile: Please don’t be a stranger though - I’ve enjoyed having you around.


i can see Jesus so sad over all this:(

please Protestants, don’t leave :frowning: we are all brothers in Christ…we must work our differences with love.


All mesage boards are the same, hundreds of personalities and all of them more bold then they ever would be without the anonimity of a message board. Message boards breed debate and anymosity by their very nature. CA is OK although at times I too am worried about supporting the boards through a magazine subscription when froums like “Eastern Chrsitianity” are just used to tear down the Church, and I think a lot of folks do lose faith by posts on this board, especially the Apologetcs and Non-Catholic sections. In the end I can understand somewhat what you’re saying.

That said, your post was pretty unintelligent and insulting for someone complaining about unintelligent and insulting posters.

Anyway, I hope you reconsider and God Bless and good luck with everything.


Something I have noticed is that people will often pick up on a nasty comment and then ignore anything else written by anyone else that modifies such a comment–even outright apologies from those who also took exception to a nasty comment who are on the opposite side of the debate. Why is that? In all sincerity I ask, why is that? Can’t people be adult enough to recognize blowhards when they read them and let them pass? I admit that I’ve responded badly from time to time, but I’ve always end up regretting it, and so should all of us, yes?


I think some perspective is required here.

The reality of CAF is that it operates under a pretty liberal policy regarding the toleration of confrontational posts. This results in some posters going overboard. At the same time, it allows a pretty free-flow debate of ideas. Isn’t that our call to find the Truth. If there is excessive “editing”, the editors then begin to hold excessive influence in the process of finding the truth. Personally, I applaud CAF in that it allows a freer flow debate and is a welcome change of pace from other forums hosted by particular religions that will expel any member who strongly articulates a position contrary to the articles of the host forum.

Also, we need to look at the recent posts that caused steadfast to react so. One is a thread where he asked us to enter into a debate about the Canon of the Bible and refute his learned source. Catholics pretty much refused to enter this debate according to the ground rules Steadfast wanted- a point by point dissertation of the points of his source. Catholics refused for two reasons that were consistently posted- One, his source seemed to rely excessively on the views of St. Jerome. St. Jerome was commissioned by the Church to translate Scripture and not determine canonicity of particular books. Catholics understand that authority in one area doesn’t translate into authority in other areas. Second, this source had an overt agenda. It is really hard to divide a person’s agenda from his arguments. They are inter-related and any intellectual knows it.

Finally, we need to review the most recent posts that seemed to bother steadfast. They were posts that were not very complimentary and insulting about Luther. When I read the exchange between these antagonists and Steadfast I was reminded of a conversation I had with a friend of mine who is an elder in a Lutheran congregation. He is married to a Catholic wife. He read a book called “Luther” by Martin Marty or Marty Martin (I don’t recall). Anyway, the author is one of hte most preeminent Lutheran historians and a Lutheran theologian of note. After my friend read the book, he recommended it to me (I’ve yet to read it). When I asked him what he learned, he said “Luther is neither the man Lutheran’s hold him out to be nor the man that Catholics make him out to be.”

In essence, the Catholics denigration was rooted in this Catholic misperception my friend noted. But Steadfast’s offense belied also his misperception of the man Luther was (no discussion was about Luther’s actual theology). I was struck by how Steadfast’s responses belied an almost mystical “worship” of Luther as a man that even the most ardent Papists would never impute to the Pope as a man.

Steadfast, we will miss you as you did raise the curve on many issues. But I will not beg you to stay or ask you to reconsider. CAF is not for the faint of heart or mind. If an exchange with people who are sometimes excessively adamant and others who are exceptionally informed (not always the same people) are too much for you to take, you will probably be better suited for a forum that is less tolerant of diverging opinions and acceptable manners of expressing those opinions.


yes that is true. And lately, there has been a rash of uncharitable new Catholic poster lately who make statements as idiotic as “Catholics worship Mary, I don’t care what you say about your own faith, you do”.

In the past few weeks I have spent more time defending my Protestant Brethren than the Catholic faith against malicious attacks and set up questions.

This too shall pass. For the most part, the Catholics and Protestants who choose to come here are able to be charitable with each other while still getting into valuable discussions on issues. The rest end up leaving or get banned fairly quickly.


As pointed out by others, while you complain about the lack of Charity shown to you, your post shows a marked lack of charity as well as loaded words and adjectives, ironic considering what you are complaining about.

May God bless you and keep you safe.




I don’t know if you’re still around to read this, but I have the same reaction at times, and I’m suspicious of it. In the end, if we reject Catholicism it’s the Catholicism of Pope Benedict (not that only the Pope counts–he’s not only the current leader of the RCC but one of its most gracious and articulate current representatives, so he’s a good symbol) that we are rejecting, and not the Catholicism of Catholic Answers. I’m sure you know that there are millions of Catholics out there who have never heard of CA, and whose vices actually lie in the opposite direction–toward complacent acceptance of a “tolerance” that involves the surrender of Catholic tradition. The folks here are reacting against that, and they overreact. But that’s human.

Also, I don’t know how many boards you’ve visited, but I’ve been on quite a few and this is one of the best. It’s large and busy, which means that there are lots of uninformed posts. But there’s a lot of real, substantive discussion that goes on as well.


I had quite a morning in the ghetto. I held in my hands Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and them followed his admonition to eat his body and drink his blood. I think ill stick around if its all the same to you…


Sorry to see you go Steadfast. But I know what you’re talking about. While I have had good discussions with other posters and have not come across hostililty, I do get upset at some of the other threads which seem really mean and uncharitable. I keep telling myself I’m going to take a break from the negativity but this is the only place I’m in contact with Catholics who like to talk about Catholic matters. Best wishes…



I find this to be most liberal christian forum around.

I’ve been to carm, bb, and others.

Some of the other boards will not let you join now, if you are catholic.



That’s not the “ghetto” Steadfast is talking about. Surely you know that?

He’s talking about your “fortress mentality” with regards to other Christians, not the practice of your faith (which is ours as well, whether you recognize it or not).



Well then he’s wrong.

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