This Man can walk on water just like Jesus!


#1

youtube.com/watch?v=sBQLq2VmZcA

Christopher Nicholas Sarantakos (born December 19, 1967), better known by his stage name Criss Angel is an American magician, musician, mentalist, hypnotist, escapologist, stunt performer, and actor. He is best known for starring in his own television show, Criss Angel Mindfreak.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Angel

har har har, theres nothing supernatural about water walking afterall. The myth of the Miraculous Jesus is slowly but surely being debunked. Truely God gave us Reason and not Religion. :thumbsup:


#2

did you check the comments?:slight_smile:


#3

yeah i did. but i’m sure thats what the jews said about jesus too. “I seen glass!” :smiley:

seriously, i know theres a trick to it. but the point is, it can be faked. this shaved off a big chunk off the little faith i have left for supposed religious miracles.


#4

of course, with tecknology it can be faked…in Jesus’ time, however, hardly :wink:


#5

He’s a magician, isnt he?? :rolleyes: It’s just a trick. Why does he walk with his arms outstretched as if on a tightrope?

NIce try, but the fact that he’s an illusionist and magician does nothing to add credibility for your view.:stuck_out_tongue:

Vickie


#6

Hopefully humans have enough reason to be able to understand that there are truths other than literal historical ones and that to insist that attempts to describe humanity’s encounters with spiritual reality must either be literally true in order to have any value or total nonsense/ a pack of lies is just as misguided from either side.


#7

Yeah…Except Peter got out of the boat and walked towards Jesus on the same water, before (seemingly, like you) doubt set in, and he starts sinking!

That’s known as ‘miracle and corroborating action’ but I know you probably doubt all of Scriptures anyway.

:cool:


#8

as if that stunt requires incredible breakthroughs in physics & electronics. nah, all you need is a plank and an angle of view.


#9

I also saw glass. And back in Jesus’s time this was impossiable, but he was the Son of God and God can do anything! :smiley:


#10

Didn’t Jesus walk all the way out to the boat? must have been one very long plank


#11

if you insist on this level of argument, did Jesus walk in a swimming pool?


#12

simple, peter was part of the show. and whether or not he sunk, when the crowd saw what they thought they saw, the stories traveled from ear to ear and evolving as it passes along. before you know it a simple parlor trick becomes a sophisticated story! thats what we humans do. :rolleyes:


#13

the disciples were in a boat on the** Sea of Galilee ** (not a swimming pool with edges) and a wind blew up. in the middle of **the windstorm **Jesus walks on the water out to the boat. When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. Not like in your link where these things were already known to people.
Peter replied, ‘tell me to come to you on the water.’ Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus.

So if Jesus faked it, did Peter as well? in the sea, during a windstorm? Jesus should have been very busy before, getting vry long wires and nailing then on the edge of the sea.


#14

You know of course that they were in the desert and they were so far off that it looked like they were on ‘glassy water’, like an ocean!

From that distance, it looked like one guy walked away from the boat on water, then another guy went towards him, dived under, got up and they talked for several minutes whilst standing on the water, 200 metres from the boat!!

:smiley:


#15

I saw globby stuff come out of his shoes?

It is too bad he didn’t sink a little once or twice, then we would have known it was not a fake.

I didn’t realize AT you had any faith at all you have been hiding it pretty good. How could it have been a very big chunk?
But it only takes a seed and it has to grow though not SHRINK.
We still pray for you anyhoo.


#16

Those samurai warriors in the movie “Hero” not only walked on water, they had a right and proper samurai fight.

So there.


#17

quote: AgnosTheist

as if that stunt requires incredible breakthroughs in physics & electronics. nah, all you need is a plank and an angle of view.

Plank and an angle of view?

Sounds like the purported production of
the most famed photo of the Loch Ness monster.

I did note you saying that God gave
us reason and not religion, earlier in
this thread.
I thought to myself, isn’t that a forced either/or?
Like many things in life, most phenomenon partake of both/and.

What day is this, in the
secular humanist canon?

The feast of Galileo, or vespers for Carl Sagan?
And what color the vestements today?
Orange - for global warming, or red - for the
martyrs of science?

I was thinking only today of how much of a
laugh it’s going to give to those in the future,
who will ally the Galileo affair of the RCC with
the credulity of those who accepted global warming -
and how those who oppose this 'truth of the faith"
[it’s getting warmer and warmer :rolleyes: ] are held
to be ‘heritcs’ among the ‘faithful.’

I don’t know which is more painful to consider.
Poor Galileo and his telescope, or the modern
acolytes of agenda-driven ‘science,’ who do not
have the excuse that those in Galileo’s time might proffer,
[lack of technology]

…for with the instruments of science available today,
those in the future will see this ‘global warming’ assertion
much like the phlogiston theory of times past.

I do find faith touching, wher’ere I find it.
In churches of stone, or in the glades of academe.
Saints and martyrs, liturgies [the 5 K run? :slight_smile: ]
holy days [anniversary of the description of the double helix,
commemoration of the 1st Secular Humanist Manifesto.]
Scripture - the writings of Richard Dwakins or Carl Sagan.

Worshipping at the altar of science is a crabbed affair,
I think. Trying to jam all of the gorgeous phenomena in life
into some burlap bag, woven by those with a lack of
imagination and scope, if nothing else.

“It doesn’t exist, until ‘Science’ confirms it.”

How utterly drab a view of existence scientism serves us.
I’m happier reading microwave instructions, than purusing
the minutes of the meetings of the secular humanists,
foregathered.

Between ‘we have the true faith,’ and
’we are the liberated cognoscenti,’ our days are
surely interesting.

Reminds me of the saying “God spare you from living
in interesting times.” We have not been spared.:coffeeread:

reen12


#18

So, Jesus had clear plastic in his day?

He did, however, announce that on a certain evening, about twilight, he would walk on the water. The place of his selection was watched by Gentile boys until one of Smith’s followers was seen to construct a bridge of planks just under the surface. Watching their opportunity, the boys removed the outer planks. Before the prophet made the attempt to walk he exhorted his followers to have strong faith. When his bridge suddenly gave way he swam ashore and said, “Woe unto you of little faith! Your faith would not hold me up.”

olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1880Math.htm

[In one story] he announced he was going to walk on water. Some local lads discovered planks hidden under the water of a local pond. They removed the supports. When Joseph tried [his miracle] he [fell] into the water.
sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/NY/miscNYS4.htm

grandpasfaith.com/grandpafaith.htm


“Angel” walks on water

Hoax uncovered

Plank cut

Angel shrieks Two Disciples, J. J. Moss and Isaac Moore, investigated the Mormons at this time [when Thomas Campbell challenged Sidney Rigdon to debate in 1831]. These two men pretended to be interested so they could enter the inner circle of the movement to expose its weakneses. Moss wrote in his diary of an incident connected with the so-called angelic visitations at Kirtland which turned out disastrously for the angel. He claimed when the Mormons baptized at night, it was a common sight to see an angel walk out on the water as if to imply [84] divine approval. Upon examination of the local in daylight, the investigators (Moss and Moore) found a two-inch plank fixed like a springboard just beneath the surface of the water. They sawed the plank almost in half; so the next night, when the “angel” walked on the water, the plank gave way, causing a mighty splash and a very un-angelic shriek! “Autobiography of a Pioneer Preacher,” Christian Standard [M. M. Moss, ed.], Jan. 15, 1938, cited in Buckeye disciples, 83–84.


#19

Of Joseph Smith

J. F. Goldsmith

Foils scheme of Joseph, et. al.
John A. Eddy learned the carpenter trade with my father, and married my sister. He told me that Jo Smith announced in a Mormon meeting; at such a time he would walk on the water. Grandison Newell and your father paid me one dollar a night to watch and see what the Mormons did. The night before the walking was to be, Jo Smith, Rigdon, Brigham Young, and William Aldrich worked half the night and drove forked stakes in the river in the form of a horseshoe, the ends being on one bank and in deep water. They placed green sycamore slabs which would sink in the water on the crotched stakes which were eight or more inches under water, altogether between two and three hundred feet long. After they left, I removed one of the slabs near the center. According to appointment, prophet Jo Smith came with several hundred Mormons and Jo addressed them. He said they could walk on the water if they only had faith. Jo arrayed in a long white robe, walked some distance, turned and walked backward, and where the slab had been removed, went in all over. He got to shore by the aid of the limb of a tree. Jo said at once to the audience, “Oh ye of little faith, if you had faith as large as a grain of mustard seed, I could remove mountains.” “J. F. Goldsmith’s Statement,” NTAM, Apr. 1888, p. 2 col. 5. Signed and witnessed statement obtained by Arthur B. Deming. Source

Ancestry.com has a William Aldrich, b. 1807 in Lisbon, Grafton county, New Hampshire; md. Hannah Kelly Montgomery, March 7, 1833 in Whitefield, Coos county, New Hampshire; 2 children born in Kirtland, May 6, 1837 and May 22, 1840; and four born in Spring Prairie, Walworth county, Wisconsin beginning 1845. Listed on Kirtland tax records 1836–1839.

Kirtland profile, 132, Census for 1850, 1860, 1870 has him living in Spring Prairie.


Sunday night … our Mormon neighbors informed us Jo Smith, on Sunday night, was going to walk on the water and urged our family to go. My brother and I went with Enos and Joel Smith, whose parents were Mormons.
“Joel Miller’s Statement,” NTAM 1, no. 2 (Apr. 1888): 2, col. 6. Source
After meeting

Joseph in white robe

Crowd jeer ¶ After attending a meeting in the school house at the Flats in Kirtland, at which Jo and I think Rigdon spoke, we all went to the river east and below the bridge. Jo Smith again spoke to the crowd and put on a white robe and began to walk. He said something about faith and talked as he walked in a curve. He was out of water except his feet and was successful for a time. He walked slowly and finally went down. The Gentiles shouted loudly, laughed and jeered in many ways. The Mormons said Jo’s faith had failed. I saw several men step into the water and reach for Jo to help him out. I soon after learned planks had been fixed in the water for him to walk on and one had been removed.


Leonard Rich tells story

Members’ faith failed Leonard Rich, a Mormon elder, told me he saw Jo Smith walk on the water. He said planks had been fixed in the water and one had been removed so Jo went down where he got out of the water. Jo said he could have walked if the brothers’ and sisters’ faith had not failed. “William Rockafellow,” Mar. 19, 1885, NTAM 1, no. 2 (Apr. 1888): 2, col. 6. Source


Joseph’s faith failed I well remember going to Kirtland one evening with a two horse wagon load of men and boys to see the Mormon prophet, Jo Smith, walk on the water. There was a large crowd on both banks of the river below the bridge east of the Flats. Jo addressed the crowd on Faith some time. He said all that was needed to perform miracles was faith. He put on a white robe and began his walk and talked of his faith bearing him up. He suddenly went down and the Gentiles shouted and said the plank had failed. The Mormons said his faith had failed. He was helped out of the water. I was seventy five to a hundred feet from him. “J. M. Granger’s Statement,” NTAM 1, no. 2 (April 1888): 2, col. 7. Source

saintswithouthalos.com/n/walk_on_water.phtml


#20

Yeah, and I heard that the Star Wars movies used special effects to simulate space flight, so that proves that there are no real spacecraft. Now I’m gettin’ this “Reason” thing! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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