This Passage in Daniel Seems to Predict Martin Luther (?)

I was reading Daniel 11 last night… and it blew me away how the passage seemed to describe what happend to the Church when M. Luther began his attack on the Church… Have you read this? I don’t have it on me but can get it by tomorrow…

It speaks of the abolishing the “daily sacrifice”, etc…

You mean vrs. 31 … “Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the continual burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate.”

Martin Luther … no way !!!

That’s correct. The prophecy of verse 31 refers to the time of the Maccabees, when the Greeks profaned the Temple and placed pagan gods in the Temple for worship.

my version says "his mind set against the holy covenant; he sahll arrange matters… direct his rage and energy against the holy covenant…Armed forces… defile thesanctuary… abolishing the daily sacrifice and setting up the horrible abomination. "

I never thought the passage directly referred to M. Luther, but Luther DID do those things… he & his followers forbade the Mass… persecuted/killed priests, etc…

If you weren’t taught this in high school or even college, neither was i… (we live in a protestant country). :mad:

but, as stated in response to other Poster… M. Luther did what is spoken of in this passage…

So i say… if they shoe fits, we ought to make him wear it… :smiley:

But aren’t the other three kingdoms also pre-Christian era kingdoms, or am I thinking of the wrong prophecies in Daniel?

Although that may have been the end result of Luther’s actions, I don’t think it helps to throw the guilt of his actions on all Protestants, which is what you do by implication. I’d rather work to solve our problems, rather than drive the knife ever so deeper.

i have heard non-Catholics say that Daniel refers to the end times (of history)… but i don’t trust any but the Church’s intepretation & i don’t know what that is…

Although that may have been the end result of Luther’s actions, I don’t think it helps to throw the guilt of his actions on all Protestants, which is what you do by implication. .

i don’t see how you can say that… I am talking about M. Luther, not present day Protestants… My statement that we live in a protestant nation is nothing but the truth…

Nationwide, Catholics are 20-25% of the population with some states having more, some considerably LESS…

Well…if Martin Luther set up a church with abominations, then most Protestants that I know don’t take too kindly to having their church services referred to as “abominations before the Lord”. It just doesn’t sit too well with them.

Here’s what CatholicCulture.Com says about this portion of Daniel:

[FONT=&quot]A despicable person (11. 21), Antiochus IV got power by intrigue. Soon after taking the throne he invaded Judah where he destroyed the prince of the covenant, Onias III. Onias sought refuge in Daphne, near Antioch, but was assassinated there in 171 BC.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Then he attacked the King of the South, Ptolemy VI in 169. He tried to win over Ptolemy VI and there seemed to be peace. He advanced on Memphis, but a nationalist faction in Alexandria proclaimed the brother of Ptolemy VI as king. Antiochus wanted to take Memphis, but considered it impossible to take. With great wealth he went back to Syria. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In going through Palestine he took the temple treasures, and left a garrison in Jerusalem. A year later he tried a campaign against Egypt. In Alexandria he met a Roman Senator Popilius Laenas, who drew a circle around Antiochus in the sand, ordered him to get out of Egypt. Antiochus did. (The Kittim are the Romans). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
In Palestine he persecuted the Jews, demanding they offer sacrifice to the gods. He built a Greek type gymnasium there. Some Jews gave in; many did not, especially Eleazar and the Mother of seven sons. The Maccabees and others made up an army and won remarkable victories. Antiochus did not respect the gods of his ancestors. Yet he seemed to identify himself with Olympian Zeus. From 169-66 his image was on coins, seeming to identify himself with Zeus Olympios. . He called himself Epiphanes, a god who appears. He did not honor “the delight of women” (11. 37), seemingly Adonis-Tammuz. [/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]In Jerusalem (11. 31) he stopped the continual daily sacrifice in the temple, and set up the “abomination of desolation” there. In view of the fact that Antiochus is the type of Antichrist, and in view of the multiple fulfillment mentioned above in our study of the 70 weeks of years, we may ask if this also foretells that the Mass will be stopped at the time of the Antichrist–we do not know, and we recall Lk 18. 8, and 2 Thes. 2. 3. The abomination of desolation was seen just before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD–probably it was the entrance of the Roman military standards into the Temple, with the eagles on them, which the soldiers worshipped. [/FONT]

i totally agree…

Only problem:

I didn’t say anything remotely like that…

thanks… where did this come from?

So, if Martin Luther removed the Eucharist from the Mass, which would be abominable, and henceforth, all Protestant churches do not partake of the Eucharist (give or take an Anglican or Episcopal here or there), then wouldn’t the average Protestant connect the dots to think that one is calling their church service abominable?

That’s why I thought you were lumping his abomination with 99% of other Protestants church practices.

Oooooooh, busted. It’s . orgnot “.Com”.

so what are Protestants doing here anyway… on a Catholic forum?? :smiley:

but seriously, if they can’t take the heat… well, you know…

if i went to a protestant site and started complaining about how anti-Catholic a lot of its posters are… well… i just bet i would get a lot of positive feedback… .:rolleyes:

thank you… :slight_smile:

Yeah, but if they get on this site and find that Catholics aren’t the idol-worshiping, Scripture-ignorant, works-salvation bigots that they’ve been told we are…

St. Jerome points out that the Jews believed that it was the Romans,

But those of the other viewpoint claim that the persons mentioned are those who were sent by Antiochus two years after he had plundered the Temple in order to exact tribute from the Jews, and also to eliminate the worship of God, setting up an image of Jupiter Olympius in the Temple at Jerusalem, and also statues of Antiochus himself. These are described as the abomination of desolation, having been set up when the burnt offering and continual sacrifice were taken away. But we on our side contend that all these things took place in a preliminary way as a mere type of the Antichrist, who is destined to seat himself in the Temple of God, and make himself out to be as God. The Jews, however, would have us understand these things as referring, not to Antiochus Epiphanes or the Antichrist, but to the Romans, of whom it was earlier stated, “And war galleys shall come,” whether Italian or Roman, “and he shall be humbled.” Considerably later, says the text, a king, Vespasian, shall emerge from the Romans themselves, who had come to Ptolemy’s assistance and threatened Antiochus. It is his arms or descendants who would rise up, namely his son Titus, who with his army would defile the sanctuary and remove the continual sacrifice and devote the temple to permanent desolation. By the terms siim (Siyyim) and chethim (Kittiym), which we have rendered as “galleys” and “Romans,” the Jews would have us understand “Italians” and “Romans.”

i haven’t said anything taht would fit into any of those 3 categories…

frankly, i am more interested in the truth than making so -called frients…

True, but it helps if we can help others find the truth, instead of seeing them walk away in disgust. That’s my only point. If someone thinks we’re calling their religious worship an abomination, and its proved from the bible, then they will simply whoop out the “Whore of Babylon” reference and leave in disgust.

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