This quote makes me question my catholosism


#1

"Bernard and myself went up to heaven without delay, three went to purgatory, and all the others fell into Hell."

How many others were they talking about, 30,000. That means if you met one new person everyday for the next 10 years, only 5 would go to heaven.

Is that what Jesus says in scripture? Is that a few, can we take this statement as truth? What then only priests go to heaven? and Saints to, so if you choose to be a Dad, with someone else as a mom, your condemed?

This has really got me troubled this morning.


#2

what quote? about whom? written by whom? under whose authority? written where? if you want quotes seek out the places in the gospel where Jesus himself says there is a narrow road to heaven, that only a few will follow it, that many will call out to him Lord Lord but he will not know them, the eye of the needle, etc.


#3

Who is Bernard?:confused::confused::confused:


#4

All very good questions, I’ll pose just one more because this is a question which screams in my mind every time I hear about a Catholic saying “Well I beleive in birth control, so the best thing for me to do is to leave the church and find one that accepts birth control”.

Given there is only a single objective truth of God, what in the world makes you think leaveing the Church is going to put you in a better position to be saved? Take the birth control question, the Church opposes it, because it’s clear that God opposes it. There for, leaving the Church, and shopping around for one that accepts contraception just puts you in a worse position to be saved. More so, because you’ve been taught the truth, you’re received the sacraments and should full well know what they mean. And now you’re going to give up all the sacraments, including the validily instituted Eucharist because you want to not have your support of condoms weighing on your contience. What, do you think, God’s reaction is going to be? I mean none of us truely can no, but personally I don’t want to take that chance with my soul!!! Give up your beleifs in condoms, and reaffirm your faith in Christ and pray for the grace to over come your illigitamate attachments to sin.

Same here, even if what you say were a true fact of salvation (as others point out, this is questionable), why does this make you question your faith? Reaffirm your faith.


#5

[quote="Steave, post:1, topic:177988"]
"Bernard and myself went up to heaven without delay, three went to purgatory, and all the others fell into Hell."

How many others were they talking about, 30,000. That means if you met one new person everyday for the next 10 years, only 5 would go to heaven.

Is that what Jesus says in scripture? Is that a few, can we take this statement as truth? What then only priests go to heaven? and Saints to, so if you choose to be a Dad, with someone else as a mom, your condemed?

This has really got me troubled this morning.

[/quote]

where is this quote from??? maybe clarifying that would help :)

Jesus did say that the way is narrow... people don't go to hell because they are imperfect, but because they are not repentant. If you're repentant and go to Confession and receive Communion, then don't worry, and hope in God. Maybe read "Divine Mercy in My Soul". God is merciful... the problem is when people reject His mercy! If you haven't rejected it, then don't be troubled.

God bless!


#6

I believe your quote was taken from a sermon that included a story about someone who died at the same time as St. Bernard and then reported back about the number of people who were saved vs. ended up in purgatory vs. were condemned. This is not Biblical nor can it be a factual account. It is a story. It was likely meant to emphasize the need to follow the commandments and to adhere to the teachings of Jesus. Or it could have had some other purpose; without having the whole sermon to understand the context of this one part, we are speculating.

Before getting too worked up over this, please consider that Jesus WANTS everyone to be saved. He tells and shows us that everyone CAN be saved. In the Gospels there are many examples of that, including where Jesus tells several sinners that their faith has saved them, His noting how the prayers of truly humble and sorrowful person are justified before those of the overly righteous, and culminating in His promise to the criminal on the Cross next to Him that he would THAT DAY be with Him in Paradise.

The road is not an easy one, but someone has already paved the way and provided a roadmap for us to follow.


#7

Where is your quote at in the Catechism? I have never seen it in there. :shrug::confused:


#8

Saint Vincent Ferrer relates that an archdeacon in Lyons gave up his charge and retreated into a desert place to do penance, and that he died the same day and hour as Saint Bernard. After his death, he appeared to his bishop and said to him, "Know, Monsignor, that at the very hour I passed away, thirty-three thousand people also died. Out of this number, Bernard and myself went up to heaven without delay, three went to purgatory, and all the others fell into Hell." 5 out of 33,000

Here is the quote,

A quote from a saint,

A saint is someone who we belive had found truth, How can this be truth? If you read scripture it is just not truth,

I am in a community of 20,000 catholics, and 300 attend daily mass every day, 1000's go to confession regularly. Just not feasable,

If St.bernard is one of the only ones who is saved, what then is that to made of us, bernard is 1,000,000,000.

The story seems like a lie to me and the catholic church should atleast come out and comment what there saints are saying.


#9

I understand the difficulty of this, but with the following ratio, (Let us also assue its a generous one because there is not to many saints walking around or those of us who repent into the desert)

In the whole world today applying the generous ratio (5/33,000)

A grand total of 900,000, people would be saved if the world died today.

The chances would be like for you win the the lottery than for a family of 4 for 4 to be saved!

The quote has had me worked up all day :(


#10

I've read this before as well. It was actually the subject of a thread a year or two ago. Pretty sobering, isn't it.


#11

A Saint is someone who lived a life that serves as an example.

Saints are not perfect, they are not inerrant and certainly (unless they were Pope and speaking in a very specific way or one of the Saints who wrote the Bible) infallible.

Saint’s words are not to be put on the same level as Scripture or Doctrine. If the writings of this saint bother you, then, do not read them.


#12

It seems to me that the account you speak of has Biblical basis.

Does this Bible account trouble you (Matthew 7:13-14)?

[quote=Matthew 7:13-14] "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.
[/quote]

It seems plausible to me that a road with 30,000 people traveling down a road will have many go through a gate that leads to destruction and that few (perhaps as few as 5) will chose the constricted road that leads to life.


#13

I am not exactly familiar with the quote of topic.

I do think, however, that trying to figure out ratio's as to the number of people who are going to heaven is a bit absurd. What you are doing is taking a few simple words and basing your catholic faith on a bunch of unknowns.

I believe that instead of judging where we would fall in a estimated percentage of people who will go to heaven, purgatory, or hell, we should focus more on being the best catholic we could possibly be.


#14

[quote="Steave, post:9, topic:177988"]
I understand the difficulty of this, but with the following ratio, (Let us also assue its a generous one because there is not to many saints walking around or those of us who repent into the desert)

In the whole world today applying the generous ratio (5/33,000)

A grand total of 900,000, people would be saved if the world died today.

The chances would be like for you win the the lottery than for a family of 4 for 4 to be saved!

The quote has had me worked up all day :(

[/quote]

you cant directly apply statistics to salvation, just as when Jesus spoke about the number of forgiveness being seventy times seventy. what these two statements illustrate however is an important and sobering truth. Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter heaven, Only those who do the will of the Father. the question you must then ask yourself is how much do you love the Lord to keep on that narrow path and how much do you love those around you to desire heaven for them? However, the one thing you should not do is despair. God's mercy is greater than statistics.


#15

This post made me giggle (in a positive way). My thought about the OP is “parable anyone?” You know, stories to teach a lesson? Let God be God and we be human. “Do your best and leave the rest to God.” St. Elizabeth Ann Seton


#16

Christ said most people would perish as He told us to travel along the narrow road, to be saved but few go that way. Many take the wide road that is easy which leads to destruction.

Only he ‘who endures to the end will be saved’.


#17

[quote="Steave, post:8, topic:177988"]

A quote from a saint,

A saint is someone who we belive had found truth, How can this be truth? If you read scripture it is just not truth,

[/quote]

A saint is someone who was holy and lived a life of heroic virtue. That doesn't mean that everything they ever said or wrote was true. They could be mistaken. The Church makes it clear that you do not have to believe private revelations of saints.

I was just reading St Faustina's diary and she says that she understood that no one will go to Hell who does not choose to go there. She's also a saint. I recommend reading her diary, she is always talking about many souls being saved and snatched just from the brink of Hell. It will balance out the quote you gave.


#18

[quote="Steave, post:9, topic:177988"]
I understand the difficulty of this, but with the following ratio, (Let us also assue its a generous one because there is not to many saints walking around or those of us who repent into the desert)

In the whole world today applying the generous ratio (5/33,000)

A grand total of 900,000, people would be saved if the world died today.

The chances would be like for you win the the lottery than for a family of 4 for 4 to be saved!

The quote has had me worked up all day :(

[/quote]

It was from a sermon by St. Leonard of Port Maurice (b. 1676) and the so called quote was fourth hand, at best. Leonard was supposedly quoting St. Vincent Ferrer (b. 1350) regarding someone who died on the same day as St. Bernard 300 years before that! I don't think there is any record by the ArchBishop of Lyons who supposedly received the vision from the deceased. Do you think perhaps someone made this up to scare a few people, as was the practice in the "hellfire and brimstone" days?

Why get worked up over something so dubious? Are people really that gullible?


#19

lol, yes they are!!


#20

I Googled the quote and found this:
Saint Vincent Ferrer relates that an archdeacon in Lyons gave up his charge and retreated into a desert place to do penance, and that he died the same day and hour as Saint Bernard. After his death, he appeared to his bishop and said to him, "Know, Monsignor, that at the very hour I passed away, thirty-three thousand people also died. Out of this number, Bernard and myself went up to heaven without delay, three went to purgatory, and all the others fell into Hell." 5 out of 33,000

OP: Keep in mind that revelations are just that, they are someone's interpretation of what they saw or what might have happened to them. They are not dogma. Stay strong in your faith, go to Confession often and receive Holy Communion. Obey the 10 Commandments. God LOVES us! He does not wish to damn us. He wants us to be with Him in Heaven. He knows your heart and mind, therefore your intentions matter. God is a Just Judge. Trust in Him and in His Divine Mercy!


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