This seems like a contradiction!


#1

I do have a question where I can understand why Protestants would ask Catholics:

If Jesus said don’t call anyone on earth “Father” except the One in Heaven, why do we call priests “Father”? Still having my Protestant “traits”, I can see this as a, perhaps…rather…a contradiction?:banghead: Yes, I can see that the CC is THE church that is the Way, the Truth and the Life but what happened when it SEEMS like a contradiction of what I just mentioned up there, eh?:hmmm: And I really HATE to say this but when something like that happens, it makes me feel and realize, gasp, what if the CC doesn’t teach the truth after all? See what I mean?

Or am I just missing something here? Please explain!:banghead:


#2

This link should answer your questions: catholic.com/library/call_no_man_father.asp


#3

Jesus was speaking to His Apostles when He said call no man father.

1 Corinthians 4:15
For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Philippians 2:22
But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel.
1 Thessalonians 2:11
for you know how, like a father with his children, we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you
1 Timothy 5:1
Do not rebuke an older man but exhort him as you would a father; treat younger men like brothers

Philemon 1:10
I appeal to you for my child, Ones’imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.


#4

As you can see from these Scriptures, the Apostle regarded himself as a father to his children in the faith. He taught them to regard him as a father and to regard their elders as fathers in the faith.


#5

[quote=Paris Blues]…Or am I just missing something here? Please explain!:banghead:
[/quote]

It seem’s as though you are just missing something here - you’re not alone. Catholics use something called “CONTEXT” when they read Sacred Scripture. If you put the term “Father” into context you will see it reffers to our Heavenly Father and not earthly fathers. (Notice the capitals here and the “CONTEXT”?) We only have one God - at least us Catholic Christians only have one God. It is OK to use the term father for others here on earth. We have our biological father and the church fathers and our nations founding fathers and our clerical fathers. Even the anti-Catholic biggots who claim the term “Father” is for God only violate their own rules - a double standard for them which is typical I might add.

This whole thing about call no man father is strickly a ploy to missguide Catholics out of Christs body - His Catholic Church - or to keep non-Catholics from comming home to His Church.

When you study what the anit-Catholics claim you will find they often grasp at straws or invent lies, blow smoke or just plain say missleading things. This is an example of one that you seem to have heard as a Protestant and one you need to admit was an outright lie and let go of.

God bless,

WELCOME HOME TO HIS BODY, HIS CATHOLIC CHURCH!!!


#6

This ‘call no man father’ argument is another silly argument. I went round and round with a Jehovah’s Witness on this one. The key is found in Ephesians 3:14-15:

For this cause I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom all paternity in heaven and earth is named,

Fatherhood comes from the one, true Father in Heaven and, as evidenced by the MANY different examples of people becoming fathers, honoring their fathers, and calling THEMSELVES spiritual fathers, this Protestant argument is all smoke and mirrors or just plain lazy exegesis.

The question should not be why do we call our priests father but rather why do other faiths NOT call their leaders ‘father’…Everyone in the Bible does!

Paul called himself a father ('for i have begotten you in the gospel), James called Abraham ‘father’, and JESUS, in the context of a parable, called Abraham ‘FATHER’…Is Jesus confused? Of course not.


#7

Paris, you should know that you aren’t required to call a priest Father, so don’t let this one hang up stop you from being Catholic :slight_smile:

And take a step back, pray, and read what others have posted in this thread.


#8

That is a typical ploy to get you to question your decision.

The verse they are talking about has been taken out of context to help "prove their point.“
In the verses, Jesus is rebuking the Pharisees because they are using the term to gain special considerations and places of honor for themselves. They are not giving any credit to God. He is saying to the people to listen to their teachings for they teach from the “seat of Moses” (just like the chair of Peter!”) but do not do as they do. In other words, they don’t practice what they preach - so do not call them “Father.” Their teaching is sound but their actions are contrary to their teaching. Only call those people Father, Rabbi, or Teacher who deserve the title.

We wouldn’t call someone Doctor if they don’t possess the medical degree to back it up. If someone has put in the work and study for years and has earned the title of Doctor, then we call him Doctor. The Pharisees in the verse had not earned the title of father. They were not being true the meaning of the title rather they used the title for their own benefit. Our priests have earned the title by virtue of the office they hold (never mind the years of study and prayer it takes to prepare one to be a priest). They are our spiritual fathers in Christ as Paul calls himself in 1 Cor 4:15.

Portestants will frequently take passages out of context to make a much broader condemnation of Catholic teaching because they want to prove the Church wrong in her teaching and to bring people away from the truth. It’s such as shame that they turn their backs on such rich theology and therefore miss out on the many graces God has provided us through our Church!

Hang in there and come here whenever you have questions. We will be more than happy to help you understand! And HURRY HOME!


#9

Paris Blues…you give too much credit to your Protestant friends and not enough credit to the Catholic Church.

All these questions that they ask you have been asked millions of times throughout the years since the Reformation and they have been answered a million times or more. The fact that they continue to ask the same exact questions proves that they have learned absolutely nothing! You need to have confidence that the Church would not lead you astray. The answers to all these questions are very simple, so simple in fact that I believe it must have taken 1st graders to think up the questions.

Do not doubt for a second that the Church cannot answer these pathetic questions that you keep hearing. You may not possess the answer but the Church certainly does. So when you are on the spot and drawing a blank in front of your friends all you have to do is tell them that you are not sure of the answer but you will certainly find out for them.

Most importantly, and this is just my opinion, do not let them off the hook. Once you give them the answer follow up with a question of your own. The reason they asked the question is because of some false impression that they have regarding Christianity, which you can easily expose by asking your own questions.

This is a good and fun way to learn your faith. You learn the answers to their questions and you also learn the questions that you need to be asking them. You will begin to see how easily their questions are answered and you will build confidence as you see their inability to answer yours.


#10

[quote=martino]Paris Blues…you give too much credit to your Protestant friends and not enough credit to the Catholic Church.

All these questions that they ask you have been asked millions of times throughout the years since the Reformation and they have been answered a million times or more. The fact that they continue to ask the same exact questions proves that they have learned absolutely nothing! You need to have confidence that the Church would not lead you astray. The answers to all these questions are very simple, so simple in fact that I believe it must have taken 1st graders to think up the questions.

Do not doubt for a second that the Church cannot answer these pathetic questions that you keep hearing. You may not possess the answer but the Church certainly does. So when you are on the spot and drawing a blank in front of your friends all you have to do is tell them that you are not sure of the answer but you will certainly find out for them.

Most importantly, and this is just my opinion, do not let them off the hook. Once you give them the answer follow up with a question of your own. The reason they asked the question is because of some false impression that they have regarding Christianity, which you can easily expose by asking your own questions.

This is a good and fun way to learn your faith. You learn the answers to their questions and you also learn the questions that you need to be asking them. You will begin to see how easily their questions are answered and you will build confidence as you see their inability to answer yours.
[/quote]

Yes, but I don’t know much about the CC so I can’t really say whatever if I dont’ know something (perhaps I should do more research on the history, eh?:hmmm: ). I know more about being a Protestant than a Catholic but I’m learning! That’s why I have these questions so they wont sound confusing to me when they’re answered! It’s something I want to clear up first! If something sounds “muddy” (like my question about Father), I ask that and tell people how I feel about it because it sounds “muddy” due to my Protestant “traits” (Ohh! Why did the reformation have to happen! :frowning: ) but when I get a good answer - like I do here thank goodness! - I start to realize it’s truth and it helps me understand better.

But people here have got to realize and understand that when I started pursuing Catholicism, I was a bit “edgy” what I heard about the CC and thought, um, now what? Protestant or Catholic? If you weren’t a Protestant your whole life, sure, it’s easy but when you’re a convert, you still have questions and sometimes even doubts (hope not!) because you still have your Protestant “traits”!

Well, maybe after all it’s a good thing I wont be getting confirmed on Saturday because I’m still “weary” on some things! But when things start falling “in place”, I’ll be ready!


#11

[quote=Paris Blues] I wont be getting confirmed on Saturday because I’m still “weary” on some things! But when things start falling “in place”, I’ll be ready!
[/quote]

Ah, yes, Paris. I am sure this is disappointing but you will be richly rewarded for your caution. You have made a wise choice – and be assured, when you are ready, your pastor can confirm you without making you wait until next Easter (unless you want to!).

Take it one step at a time; and come back here to ask those “muddy” questions. The rest of us converts know EXACTLY where you’re coming from. We’ve been there too.


#12

[quote=Paris Blues]I do have a question where I can understand why Protestants would ask Catholics:

If Jesus said don’t call anyone on earth “Father” except the One in Heaven, why do we call priests “Father”? Still having my Protestant “traits”, I can see this as a, perhaps…rather…a contradiction?:banghead: Yes, I can see that the CC is THE church that is the Way, the Truth and the Life but what happened when it SEEMS like a contradiction of what I just mentioned up there, eh?:hmmm: And I really HATE to say this but when something like that happens, it makes me feel and realize, gasp, what if the CC doesn’t teach the truth after all? See what I mean?

Or am I just missing something here? Please explain!:banghead:
[/quote]

In that same verse He also said don’t call anyone Teacher and a lot of other things. I think the message was “Keep your eyes on God”. Anyone can fish around in scripture and take a verse or two out of context to prove just about anything they want. That is why He gave us His Church, which is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth, so we don’t fall victim to that sort of distortion of the Word and falsehood.


#13

This is easy. The problem here is not the Church, but yourself. You are contradicting yourself as to the term and meaning to the word “father.” And, again what does that have to do with the faith and truth of the Catholic Church? You are thinking in the worldy manners…but Jesus was teaching in the spiritual matters. I hope you will come to your senses between what is spiritual and what is earthly.
thanks.


#14

Relax. Compare Scripture with Scripture. Read 1 Timothy 5:1…

Rebuke not an elder, but intreat [him] as a father;

So, Christ says, “Call no man ‘father,’” but the Holy Spirit advises us to call non-fathers “father.” Since Jesus can not contradict the Holy Spirit, Christ’s words must have been hyperbole to make a point subtler – and different from – the obvious point.

Suggestion: Christ was advising His listeners to beware of imitating the values of the muckity-mucks on Earth. Literally speaking, Christ could not have cared less if A calls B, a non-father, “father.”


#15

I call my male parent “father.” Is that bad? Of course not. Like others have said: context, context, context.


#16

[quote=tuopaolo]Paris, you should know that you aren’t required to call a priest Father, so don’t let this one hang up stop you from being Catholic :slight_smile:

And take a step back, pray, and read what others have posted in this thread.
[/quote]

So what would you call your priest? Fred?

Father is his title why would you not use his title? Do you not call a doctor a doctor? Granted if there is familiarity you can call him Padre (Spanish for Padre), but that is about the only exception I can think of.


#17

[quote=gelsbern]So what would you call your priest? Fred?

Father is his title why would you not use his title? Do you not call a doctor a doctor? Granted if there is familiarity you can call him Padre (Spanish for Padre), but that is about the only exception I can think of.
[/quote]

Calling a priest Father is just a custom. I could be wrong, but AFAIK, it’s not something that the Church requires you to do. The Church doesn’t say that it is a sin not to do it.

And it’s only a custom in certain countries. In some countries, priests are not called Father but are called with a different title.

And even in North America, there are some Catholics who for whatever reason call priests by their first names. I’m not sure how common it is, but I’ve witnessed it. I’ve also witnessed priests addressing other priests by their first names.

I – personally – would be happier if we got rid of the custom for both doctors and priests … basically all titles actually … but while the custom remains, I am happy to abide by it. I can share with you the reasons for my view if you want … but it may be better in another thread as it’s just my personal view, not official Church teaching.


#18

tuopaolo I would be very interested in your reasons and a new thread is a good idea, I would like to see what others think of it too.

I would like to post this link tho.

kensmen.com/catholic/addressingclergy.html


#19

Can’t help wonder what Jesus called his earthly father, Joseph .


#20

Isn’t there something in scripture that forbids calling any baseball team “Father”? :wink:


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