This seems to be becoming the athiests denial site


#1

It is almost impossible to read any thread, with the exception of the game threads, that do not seem to be becoming athiest propoganda denials of God.
I thought this was a site to help others to grow in their faith, it seems to me they are tossing in their ,no hope theories, to confuss people who really want to grow.
I dont have a problem with them beginning their own thread, or even getting in one discussing the topic of reasons for God existance, but even then they take one line out of entire paragraphs and act as if nothing else had been said. But, I digress, I do hope that some of the more recent joiners who are trying to dissuade those in need of hope, will stay to the threads which conform to their topic.
Oh, and I do like how the athiest like to use big, complicated words to basically say nothing. :slight_smile:


#2

tdandh << It is almost impossible to read any thread, with the exception of the game threads, that do not seem to be becoming athiest propoganda denials of God. >>

What you talking about? There aren’t enough atheist threads. :o At least I don’t see that many. And learn to spell atheist.

Buy some Michael Martin, Richard Carrier, Peter Kreeft, William Lane Craig, and take them all on. :confused: :banghead:

At least the evolution threads have died down somewhat. I don’t mean to imply that has anything to do with atheism. :confused: :whacky:

Phil P


#3

[quote=tdandh26]It is almost impossible to read any thread, with the exception of the game threads, that do not seem to be becoming athiest propoganda denials of God.
[/quote]

(Edited expletive as per Forum Rules ) atheists!

I thought this was a site to help others to grow in their faith, it seems to me they are tossing in their ,no hope theories, to confuss people who really want to grow.

If atheism is true, then spreading information about it and argument in favor is definitely not spreading confusion. And even if it is false, becoming well acquainted with the beliefs of the opposing “team” would be a good way to strengthen one’s faith - to understand knotty or unclear issues. And is atheism really a “no hope” theory?

I dont have a problem with them beginning their own thread, or even getting in one discussing the topic of reasons for God existance, but even then they take one line out of entire paragraphs and act as if nothing else had been said.

Yes, yes, I don’t mind them so long as they keep to themselves… ; )
But really, are we that bad? Do we intentionally misrepresent the positions of others? Do we ignore good arguments?

But, I digress, I do hope that some of the more recent joiners who are trying to dissuade those in need of hope, will stay to the threads which conform to their topic.

It would be a lot easier to discuss this issue if you could give more examples of off-topic posts by atheist posters based on their atheism. It would also be useful to compare that to the number or proportion of posts by theists which are off-topic and based on their theism.

Oh, and I do like how the athiest like to use big, complicated words to basically say nothing. :slight_smile:

Yeah, I hate it when that happens.


#4

Why should I learn how to spell a word with no chance of a future. :tiphat:


#5

enterthebowser,
I would never dream of condemning anyone for anything, that is not my job. Thanks for the sarcastic reply though. Your help is always appreciated. Like I said in another thread, I submit to your ingenious logic of denial, but I will still continue to hope.


#6

I merely endeavored to demonstrate that some of your assertions were, well, probably not true.


#7

tdandh << Oh, and I do like how the athiest like to use big, complicated words to basically say nothing. >>

Uh oh, sounds like another quote I heard…

“We’ve been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture…”

Say it isn’t so…well then get a DICTIONARY and a BOOK and fight back. :smiley:

Phil P


#8

Oh, and I do like how the athiest like to use big, complicated words to basically say nothing. :slight_smile:

Yeah, I’ve noticed that too LOL


#9

Boris (Woody Allen): Sonja, what if there is no God?

Sonja (Diane Keaton): Boris Demetrivich, are you joking?

Boris: What if we’re just a bunch of absurd people who are running around with no rhyme or reason?

Sonja: But if there is no God, well, then life has no meaning, why go on living, why not just commit suicide?

Boris: Well, let’s not get hysterical, I could be wrong. I’d hate to blow my brains out and then read in the papers they found something.

Sonja: Boris, let me show you how absurd your position is. Alright, let’s say that there is no God and each man is free to do exactly as he chooses. Well, then, what prevents you from murdering somebody?

Boris: Well, murder is immoral.

Sonja: But morality is subjective.

Boris: Yes, but subjectivity is objective.

Sonja: Not in any rational scheme of perception.

Boris: Perception is irrational, it implies immanence!

Sonja: The judgment of any system or a priori relation of phenomena exists in any rational or metaphysical or at least epistemological contradiction to an abstract and empirical concept such as being, or to be, or to occur, IN the thing itself or OF the thing itself!!!

Boris: Yeah, I’ve said that many times.

Sonja: Boris, we must believe in God.

Love and Death, 1975

Phil P


#10

Apparently much of the philosophical babble actually comes from two real Russian philosophers - George Gurdjieff and Peter Ouspensky.


#11

Phil,
I will leave the debating in your hands. To me when someone feels the need to use mathmatical equations, and big words, to try and explain something simple. It seems to me like they are grasping at air. If one needs rocket science and a college degree to defend their faith, or non-existant faith, then I feel sorry for them, because the most beautiful things in life are the most simple.
oh and btw, enterthebowser,
who is to say that what my truth is, is incorrect since, to borrow a page from the atheist handbook, my truth is subjective to my opinions and my opinion must be greater than anyone else since my life is all that matters cause when you get right down to it, according to you guys, when my life ends it wont matter what I believed. So why do you bother?


#12

[quote=tdandh26]Phil,
I will leave the debating in your hands. To me when someone feels the need to use mathmatical equations, and big words, to try and explain something simple. It seems to me like they are grasping at air. If one needs rocket science and a college degree to defend their faith, or non-existant faith, then I feel sorry for them, because the most beautiful things in life are the most simple.
oh and btw, enterthebowser,
who is to say that what my truth is, is incorrect since, to borrow a page from the atheist handbook, my truth is subjective to my opinions and my opinion must be greater than anyone else since my life is all that matters cause when you get right down to it, according to you guys, when my life ends it wont matter what I believed. So why do you bother?
[/quote]

exactly and very well said, if the atheists are so happy in their own lives, why are they at this site? hmmm…to stir up trouble…to change our minds about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? Good Luck, I’ll stick with Jesus :amen:


#13

[quote=tdandh26]…

oh and btw, enterthebowser,
who is to say that what my truth is, is incorrect since, to borrow a page from the atheist handbook, my truth is subjective to my opinions and my opinion must be greater than anyone else since my life is all that matters cause when you get right down to it, according to you guys, when my life ends it wont matter what I believed. So why do you bother?
[/quote]

There might indeed be atheists who believe that truth is subjective. However, most atheists do not use this to justify atheism, nor do they feel it to be entailed by atheism. I am one such atheist.

I do not think that it follows from “everyone dies” to “I am the only person who matters.” Atheism and morality is an interesting debate, but as you’ve phrased it, the entailment is unsupported.

Additionally, I also do not think it follows from the fact that everyone who is dead is, in fact, actually dead, that what they did in life did not matter. Life is like food - just because there’s none left when the meal’s over doesn’t mean it didn’t taste good while you were eating it.

Lastly, I am here because I enjoy discussing the issues, and I moreover think it’s a good idea to challenge my beliefs - particularly on an important issue like this one.

Get all that? I hope I didn’t use any words that are too big for you.


#14

groups.msn.com/AtheistVSGod/godexists.msnw

this is great :smiley:


#15

All I can say is, I’ve been viewing these forums,
regularly, for near 12 months, and the most well-reasoned,
well-articulated posts I’ve encountered -in my estimation - I read
today…written by a self-‘labelled’ atheist. :slight_smile:

I didn’t agree with this poster, but the positions - expressed
in these posts - were positively elegant - in terms logical.
Hat’s off, to that poster, from me. :tiphat:


I keep saying: faith is not “illogical”…but the assertions of
faith cease being “assertions” solely through grace.

I cannot ‘go to the mat,’ in debate - with an individual who holds
soley with logical positivism - for the proofs and evidence -
being sought - are not to be had.

Metaphysical is not physical ‘evidence.’

In terms of evidence or proof, for the metaphysical position:

You cannot see it, touch it, taste it, smell it, measure it,
weigh it, calibrate it…no mathematical formulas apply…

so all such discussions are moot, in a critical sense, I think.

To me, such discussions are like a game of chess.
While I am an abysmal chess player ! still - I can "see"
the “next move” - in terms of atheist/believer exchanges -
often enough.

All I can think of is the French expression:

“Le coeur a ses raisons…”

“The heart has it’s reasons, which reason knoweth not.”

Best to all,

reen12


#16

[quote=EnterTheBowser]There might indeed be atheists who believe that truth is subjective. However, most atheists do not use this to justify atheism, nor do they feel it to be entailed by atheism. I am one such atheist.

I do not think that it follows from “everyone dies” to “I am the only person who matters.” Atheism and morality is an interesting debate, but as you’ve phrased it, the entailment is unsupported.

Additionally, I also do not think it follows from the fact that everyone who is dead is, in fact, actually dead, that what they did in life did not matter. Life is like food - just because there’s none left when the meal’s over doesn’t mean it didn’t taste good while you were eating it.

Lastly, I am here because I enjoy discussing the issues, and I moreover think it’s a good idea to challenge my beliefs - particularly on an important issue like this one.

Get all that? I hope I didn’t use any words that are too big for you.
[/quote]

:whacky:


#17

I don’t know how anyone can not take a good look around them and be convinced that a creator does not exist. Everything in nature is so perfectly organized. I personally don’t beleive anyone who claims to be atheist.


#18

[quote=Jon_S]I don’t know how anyone can not take a good look around them and be convinced that a creator does not exist. Everything in nature is so perfectly organized. I personally don’t beleive anyone who claims to be atheist.
[/quote]

Last I heard, you were not actually allowed to doubt the sincerity of my beliefs.

[quote=Michael Francis]It is never acceptable to question the sincerity of an individual’s beliefs
[/quote]

(emphasis mine)

You realize, too, that the argument you just made is actually one of the arguments in the link kamz posted. Apparently they’re not all carricatures.

  1. TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
    (1) Check out that tree. Isn’t it pretty?
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

#19

Because a tree exists is not the point. If you have the answers as to how we got here then I would like to hear them.

I’m not doubting that you beleive you are an atheist. I just don’t beleive what you say and that is my reason for it. If faith is not part of your life, why would you think that there is any common ground for debate? What could we debate? I have faith in God, whose exsistence cannot be proven scientifically, and you don’t. What else is there to talk about?


#20

Unfortunately, you can’t please everyone. No matter what you do, what you say, someone, somewhere will be unhappy or unsatisified. I do my best to please as many people as I can, consistent with my own ethical principles of honesty, sincerity, and, more importantly, the ethics of being a good guest.

I consider myself a guest at these forums. Unless I become a Catholic (which seems unlikely) I always will be a guest here, no matter how long I post. I believe that I am indeed welcome here as a guest; if I were not, I would not post here. I do think that people have a right to participate in arbitrarily self-constructed communities. If that construction forbids guests who do not subscribe to the predominant ideology*, I believe I have an ethical duty to not intrude.

As a guest, I believe I have an ethical duty to bend over backwards to avoid expressing offense, and when impossible to avoid, to express my displeasure in the mildest form possible. This is a different stance than I take towards my “home” communities, where I do subscribe to the predominant ideology; although still generally tolerant, I will take and express offense more easily.

Of course, it is never good behavior on any message board to hijack any thread with an off-topic rejoinder. I’ve not investigated any particular instances of this behavior here, and I’m not making any specific accusations; I’m merely endorsing the general principle.

I also believe that I should be supportive of or silent on issues of Catholic theology where my own ideology of atheism is not directly on point. Hence, when discussing Evolution, for instance, I will generally support the Catholic Church’s position that science is not incompatible with faith. And, of course, I’m entirely incompetent to participate in a debate between Protestant and Catholic theology; on such issues I thus remain silent.

Keep in mind that I speak only for myself. I’m neither an authority nor even a leader, and I don’t hold myself up as an exemplar. I simply do what I do because it is my nature to do so. Your mileage may vary, void where prohibited, consult your physician if you experience redness, swelling or nausea.

*I mean “ideology” in the loosest, most colloquial sense of just a set of ideas.


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