Thou Shalt Not Kill?


#1

I have recently heard some Jewish persons on the radio say that we have received the wrong traslation to the Commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. They maintain that the correct term is “Thou Shalt Not Murder” Their idea is that it is Biblically lawful to kill another human in certain circumstances such as self defense, capital punishment for the human who has taken a life, or in war. Any one care to give me a little feedback on this thread?


#2

[quote=Adonia]I have recently heard some Jewish persons on the radio say that we have received the wrong traslation to the Commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. They maintain that the correct term is “Thou Shalt Not Murder” Their idea is that it is Biblically lawful to kill another human in certain circumstances such as self defense, capital punishment for the human who has taken a life, or in war. Any one care to give me a little feedback on this thread?
[/quote]

Unlawful killing is what I always assumed it to be. How could it be anything else. It is not a mortal sin to kill in self defense, assuming that was the only way to save yourself or your family.


#3

[quote=Adonia]I have recently heard some Jewish persons on the radio say that we have received the wrong traslation to the Commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. They maintain that the correct term is “Thou Shalt Not Murder”.
[/quote]

From everything I have read, this is correct.

This is also what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says, paragraphs 2259-2269 . It is not wrong to defend yourself, to serve in the military or police forces, or for the state to ‘execute’ justice upon criminals.


#4

[quote=Adonia]I have recently heard some Jewish persons on the radio say that we have received the wrong traslation to the Commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. They maintain that the correct term is “Thou Shalt Not Murder” Their idea is that it is Biblically lawful to kill another human in certain circumstances such as self defense, capital punishment for the human who has taken a life, or in war. Any one care to give me a little feedback on this thread?
[/quote]

That is the Catholic position also. See the Catechism.


#5

What you heard on the Jewish program is correct. Many people make the mistake of believing the Bible says, “You shall not kill.” However, the Bible actually says, “You shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13). The Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person.” God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12; 21:15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but rather only intentional premeditated killing or murder.


#6

[quote=Adonia]I have recently heard some Jewish persons on the radio say that we have received the wrong traslation to the Commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. They maintain that the correct term is “Thou Shalt Not Murder” Their idea is that it is Biblically lawful to kill another human in certain circumstances such as self defense, capital punishment for the human who has taken a life, or in war. Any one care to give me a little feedback on this thread?
[/quote]

I’m in agrement with everyone else on this issue.

The operative Hebrew word that is used in this commandment is “ratsach” and literally means “to dash to peices” and is properly translated to Murder. This can be further viewed if one reads the entirety of the Mosic Law which makes distinctions between murder, and other acts of killing a person followed by the various levels of punnishment for each.


#7

[quote=thistle]Unlawful killing is what I always assumed it to be. How could it be anything else. It is not a mortal sin to kill in self defense, assuming that was the only way to save yourself or your family.
[/quote]

Abortion is not unlawful.


#8

[quote=cardenio]Abortion is not unlawful.
[/quote]

It should be!!


#9

[quote=thistle]It should be!!
[/quote]

I agree. But if “murder = unlawful killing” and “abortion = lawful killing” then “abortion =/= murder.”


#10

[quote=cardenio]Abortion is not unlawful.
[/quote]

I think the poster meant “unlawful” to mean “against the law of God.”


#11

This is from the New English Translation

5:21 “You have heard that it was said to an older generation,24Do not murder,’25 and ‘whoever murders will be subjected to judgment.’

This is from the New American Bible.

"You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’

Seems like even scripture scholars can’t make up their minds which word to use.

However, the words immediatly following in either case are about the dangers of feeling anger or contempt for other people so I think the general idea is about killing out of anger or contempt (generally recognized as murder).

Killing by accident or self defense are not the same. Certainly efforts should be made to avoid them but these were not the actions that were refered to in the Ten Commandments.

peace

-Jim


#12

read this first
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7Z.HTM

Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor.... the one is intended, the other is not."65

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful.... Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since o*ne is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's*.

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.66

Killing in self defence is fine, when it is the only option. Putting yourself in the situation to kill another via self defence is not. for example, if someone breaks into your house and in trying to subdue them they accidentally die, that is no sin. If someone breaks into your house and you kill them when it would have been possible to have stopped them without killing, there is a sin. If you are a soldier defending your homeland from invasion by repelling the enemy, that is no sin. if you are a soldier, and have invaded anothers homeland and kill whilst the other soldiers are trying to repel you, you have sinned.

The fifth commandment forbids doing anything with the intention of indirectly bringing about a person's death. the moral law prohibits exposing someone to mortal danger without grave reason, as well as refusing assistance to a person in danger.

The acceptance by human society of murderous famines, without efforts to remedy them, is a scandalous injustice and a grave offense. Those whose usurious and avaricious dealings lead to the hunger and death of their brethren in the human family indirectly commit homicide, which is imputable to them.

Unintentional killing is not morally imputable. But one is not exonerated from grave offense if, without proportionate reasons, he has acted in a way that brings about someone's death, even without the intention to do so.


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