'Thou shalt shoplift' says priest [Church of England]

A clergyman has been criticised as 'highly irresponsible' after advising his congregation to shoplift following his Nativity sermon.

Father Tim Jones, 41, broke off from his traditional annual sermon yesterday to tell his flock that stealing from large chains is sometimes the best option for vulnerable people.

It is far better for people desperate during the recession to shoplift than turn to 'prostitution, mugging or burglary', he said.

The married father-of-two insisted his unusual advice did not break the Bible commandment 'Thou shalt not steal' - because God's love for the poor outweighs his love for the rich.

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1237470/Priest-outrages-police-telling-congregation-My-advice-shoplift.html#ixzz0aLM3shVv

The married father-of-two insisted his unusual advice did not break the Bible commandment ‘Thou shalt not steal’ - because God’s love for the poor outweighs his love for the rich.

The major genocides of the twentieth century were all built up upon this false premise. From Jewish bankers and one-world conspiratorialists, to the educated that Pol Pot utterly destroyed, to the bourgoise land owners of Mao’s and Stalin’s tyrannies, to Hutus slaughter against the 'priveledged Tutsis, “God’s” love for the poor equates into hate fro the rich.

The message of the Reverend Wright that 9/11 was a result of the chickens coming home to roost is the very same religious variant of this theme that spiritually advises the current administration. When God loves the poor more that the rich, then the rich become fair game. By definition, injustice can only happen to the poor. Anything that happens to the rich is merely levelling the field.

In effect, God’s love for the poor has been twisted into a Marxist heresy through Marx and his socialist progeny. The religious and the devout provide as much fodder to the theme as do the secular.

Today, shoplifting from the rich is justified as much as the same theme that the ‘rich deserve it’ justified every genocide of yesterday. Until this heresy is expunged from church teachings and exposed as the heresy it is, our prediction of what tomorrow will bring will have all the certainty of prophecy.

ummm, Hate to burst anyones bubble here but Priests are married to Christ. There are no Married catholic priests.:confused:

The article coming from the UK, I would assume him to be an Anglican priest. Married, gay, woman or whatever; Anglican priests cover the whole gamut.

He's Church of England.

How come the article dosn’t state that he is NOT Catholic. It seems they want it to look as if he is.

Maybe because most priests in the UK are not Catholic, but are Anglican?

I hate to burst your bubble, but there are married Catholic priests.

Um, yes there are married Catholic priests. Most Eastern Catholic priests are married and Anglican married priests who convert are ordained Latin Rite priests.

However, the news story above is an Anglican priest.

[quote="Kirk_O, post:6, topic:180517"]
How come the article dosn't state that he is NOT Catholic. It seems they want it to look as if he is.

[/quote]

Its a UK newspaper. Since most priests in the UK are Anglican its probably assumed that the word "priest" refers to Anglicans.

Here's some novel advice for that priest: How about the church providing for the needs of those people instead of encouraging them to sin? :ehh:

I saw a very interesting program on I believe the History Channel a couple of days ago. It was with regards to the 10 commandments. Actually, I saw on this program and have read elsewhere that there were over 600 commandments. (and I do want to say the program was not in any way anti religion)

In dealing with Thou Shall not Steal, it was not considered stealing for the hungry to take food from others in early Jewish culture. There were some restrictions though. You could go to someone’s plot of land and eat if you were unable to care for yourself and your family. You could not however take food away. It had to be eaten there. I guess that makes sense. Sustaining yourself and your family was very important to the community. If you took food away, then you could be using it to sell and make money.

I just thought this was interesting.

God bless

A priest from North Yorkshire has advised his congregation to shoplift if they find themselves in hard times.

Father Tim Jones, the parish priest of St Lawrence and St Hilda in York, said people should steal from big chains rather than small businesses.

He said society's attitude to those in need "leaves some people little option but crime".

However the Archdeacon of York said: "The Church of England does not advise anyone to shoplift".

Speaking to his congregation on Sunday, Father Jones said: "My advice, as a Christian priest, is to shoplift.

"I do not offer such advice because I think that stealing is a good thing, or because I think it is harmless, for it is neither.

"I would ask that they do not steal from small, family businesses, but from national businesses, knowing that the costs are ultimately passed on to the rest of us in the form of higher prices.

"When people are released from prison, or find themselves suddenly without work or family support, then to leave them for weeks and weeks with inadequate or clumsy social support is monumental, catastrophic folly.

"We create a situation which leaves some people little option but crime."

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/north_yorkshire/8425420.stm
:eek:

First, that priest doesn't understand how the system works. No matter how large the chain is, the owner of the specific franchise (usually a family man who is trying to provide for his family) is responsible for keeping his store stocked with items for sale. He has to purchase the items he sells from authorized dealers, and he doesn't get any kind of a discount if he gets robbed. The corporation still gets the same amount of money from the franchise owner, or else they sell the franchise out from under him to someone else, without compensating him for it. When you shoplift, you aren't stealing from some rich corporate owner who lives far away - you are stealing from a family that lives right in your own neighborhood, whose kids probably go to the same school as your kids.

[quote="jmcrae, post:14, topic:180517"]
First, that priest doesn't understand how the system works. No matter how large the chain is, the owner of the specific franchise (usually a family man who is trying to provide for his family) is responsible for keeping his store stocked with items for sale. He has to purchase the items he sells from authorized dealers, and he doesn't get any kind of a discount if he gets robbed. The corporation still gets the same amount of money from the franchise owner, or else they sell the franchise out from under him to someone else, without compensating him for it. When you shoplift, you aren't stealing from some rich corporate owner who lives far away - you are stealing from a family that lives right in your own neighborhood, whose kids probably go to the same school as your kids.

[/quote]

Well, that's assuming the company franchises - not all large chains do. For example: Starbucks, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc. are not franchises - they are corporate owned and operated. I don't know how it works in the UK for the big box stores.

Obviously it was bad advice no matter who it was who gave it, but the BBC article may be a bit misleading for Catholics as it calls the man in question “Father” Tim Jones. Of course, some Anglicans do call their ministers “Father”, but I tend to associate the title initially with Catholic clergy. For your interest, this is Tim Jones’ parish website. In fairness, it doesn’t appear to be a particularly “liberal” parish - which is probably why Tim Jones’ comments have attracted such media attention. As for the Archdeacon of York saying “The Church of England does not advise anyone to shoplift” - frankly, it’s very difficult to gauge just exactly what the Church of England does stand for at the present time given the severe discord which has emerged over the last few years…

[quote="rlg94086, post:15, topic:180517"]
Well, that's assuming the company franchises - not all large chains do. For example: Starbucks, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc. are not franchises - they are corporate owned and operated. I don't know how it works in the UK for the big box stores.

[/quote]

Even so - shoplifting probably still comes out of a local person's pocket, whatever their title or role might be. I can't see any corporate office willingly agreeing to bear the cost of all the shoplifting in the whole world. They would probably go broke straight away.

This is horrible. I work in retail now that I have been laid off. It’s hard work, and it’s part of a very big national chain. When someone shoplifts we get something called “shrink” and when that happens, do you think the coporation eats the cost? No. We do. People like me who are struggling to keep the bills paid get our hours CUT. That means less money in the paycheck, and WE eat the cost.

This priest needs to be stopped. He’s hurting more than he realizes.

Correct. I am wholly opposed to the priest’s advice. However, he seems to be aware that it will come out of others’ pocketbooks:

"I would ask that they do not steal from small, family businesses, but from national businesses, knowing that the costs are ultimately passed on to the rest of us in the form of higher prices.

"I would ask that they do not steal from small, family businesses, but from national businesses, knowing that the costs are ultimately passed on to the rest of us in the form of higher prices.

this is NOT TRUE.

Again, I work for a national chain. It is not owned by a local guy. It is part of a large corporate chain.

If there is shoplifting, our branch is seen as losing money. To keep that from happening, if we lose money through shoplifting, they don’t raise prices. They cut our hours!!! WE pay for it!!

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