Thought on Early Church


#1

If the Bible is a portrayal of the Early Church, aren’t sacred tradition and the infallible doctrines of the Pope an indicator of the more recent Church?


#2

Oh this'll be fun....


#3

[quote="teeboy, post:1, topic:320316"]
If the Bible is a portrayal of the Early Church, aren't sacred tradition and the infallible doctrines of the Pope an indicator of the more recent Church?

[/quote]

Where did you get this from? I would say it is a snapshot...but not a total picture.

Sacred Tradition is what was handed down to the Apostles...so ST was there from the beginning.

Did not Christ say...we must begin like a mustard seed and grow to a majestic big tree?

Would you expect the Church, as it grew...to continue to remain stagnant? Or as the Church grew, its direction and growth was guided by the HS, for as Christ said, the HS will guide the Church for all eternity.

But not individuals.


#4

Well, no more than the doctrine of the Trinity is an indicator of a more recent Church, in this case circa 325.


#5

So you disagree to agree.


#6

[quote="teeboy, post:1, topic:320316"]
If the Bible is a portrayal of the Early Church, aren't sacred tradition and the infallible doctrines of the Pope an indicator of the more recent Church?

[/quote]

Premise is incorrect. The Bible is not a portrayal of the early Church, as evidenced by Gregory the Great.

newadvent.org/fathers/360209012.htm

But the Lord's prayer (orationem Dominicam) we say immediately after the prayer (mox post precem) for this reason, that it was the custom of the apostles to consecrate the host of oblation to (ad) that same prayer only.

First came the Magisterium, then came Sacred Tradition and, from these, the Bible.


#7

[quote="teeboy, post:5, topic:320316"]
So you disagree to agree.

[/quote]

On what?

For every writing that made in the Bible, there were 10 others that did not make it.

If you want to get whole picture, you should also read these writings and the writings of the Early Church Fathers.


#8

So that verse where Jesus says “baptise them in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit” wasn’t in the Bible til 325?


#9

Those verses that said that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all equally and fully God are not in the bible with sufficient clarity to prevent an enormous movement within Christianity which denied the deity of Jesus Christ.


#10

If anyone’s denying Jesus is God, then they’re not a Christian are they?


#11

[quote="fhansen, post:9, topic:320316"]
Those verses that said that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all equally and fully God are not in the bible with sufficient clarity to prevent an enormous movement within Christianity which denied the deity of Jesus Christ.

[/quote]

I don't know much about the council to which you refer; however, this is a good point to drive home the importance of a human authority guided by the Holy Spirit.


#12

Be careful not to deny the Pope and the Catholic Church.

We have so called christian radio stations locally that are out to only deny the Pope and the Catholic Church. I am glad to not be affiliated with stations that deny truth.


#13

Where though does it say anything other than “on this rock…”? What about verses like Proverbs 11:14?

I’m not “denying” the Pope or the Church, I’m saying I don’t agree with everything it - or at least what some members - are saying.


#14

[quote="teeboy, post:11, topic:320316"]
I don't know much about the council to which you refer; however, this is a good point to drive home the importance of a human authority guided by the Holy Spirit.

[/quote]

Yes. I'm just not sure how that relates to the OP.


#15

[quote="davidn87, post:13, topic:320316"]
Where though does it say anything other than "on this rock..."? What about verses like Proverbs 11:14?

I'm not "denying" the Pope or the Church, I'm saying I don't agree with everything it - or at least what some members - are saying.

[/quote]

To quote teeboy:
"... this is a good point to drive home the importance of a human authority guided by the Holy Spirit."

There are many things in scripture which are seemingly ambiguous or unclear-enough so that many well-intentioned people disagree significantly on its meaning.


#16

[quote="davidn87, post:8, topic:320316"]
So that verse where Jesus says "baptise them in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit" wasn't in the Bible til 325?

[/quote]

The Bible as you see know it today did not take its form till about AD382.

However...those words of the Lord were in the hearts and minds of the Apostles...and those they appointed as their successors....this is called Sacred Tradition.

Remember what Jesus said prior to his Ascension...they would not remember or understand everything that was handed down till Pentecost.


#17

[quote="davidn87, post:10, topic:320316"]
If anyone's denying Jesus is God, then they're not a Christian are they?

[/quote]

According to Catholic and mainstream Protestant doctrine, yes, this is true. According to Arian and others, no.


#18

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