Three Children Thrown into the San Francisco Bay by Their Mother

Here’s the link to this very sad story:

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051020/ap_on_re_us/children_in_bay

The mother had to be really sick…what a terrible thing…

really sad

Lord have mercy. Those poor babies. How scary their last moments must have been. What a sick woman.

I am so sad for those babies. I saw the little yellow bag being moved on the news. Oh dear God, those poor babies…my heart aches for what they must have gone through.

The mom says “voices” told her to do it. The poor father they say is overcome in grief.

I wanted to post this story last night, but couldn’t find a link. This morning they said that mom has a mental illness–I know what it is, but I can’t spell it. How horrible she will feel when she becomes mentally stable. Let’s keep the whole family in our prayers.

Im sorry i have no sympathy for this woman, like my daddy says, some people should just be dragged behind the barn and well hmmm… dealt with is about as nice as i can translate it to. Its like that idiot woman here that drowned her kids in her bath tub, she should have been put to sleep, as did the monster that murdered three of my students, but no he shot himself in the head and left the rest of us with no hope for any type of justice. I have prayed hard about getting over this, but its people like these that give me a bad taste in my mouth and my me advocate the death penalty.

[quote=TarAshly]Im sorry i have no sympathy for this woman, like my daddy says, some people should just be dragged behind the barn and well hmmm… dealt with is about as nice as i can translate it to. Its like that idiot woman here that drowned her kids in her bath tub, she should have been put to sleep, as did the monster that murdered three of my students, but no he shot himself in the head and left the rest of us with no hope for any type of justice. I have prayed hard about getting over this, but its people like these that give me a bad taste in my mouth and my me advocate the death penalty.
[/quote]

My guess is you haven’t had to deal with post-pardem depression in your family. I have, it’s serious business, it’s a chemical issue and it changes personalities and behavior. This woman has done a very terrible thing- I don’t know if she had this depression or if she had another mental illness, but either way when she comes to her senses my guess is that she will be suicidal. She should be punished, but going for the dealth penalty is inappropriate.

I find your comments very contradictory. First you say you wish that man hadn’t died, then you say you support the dealth penalty as punishment. So what is it, you feel the only suitable penalty is the state taking the life of the murderer? I think it’s a tragedy whenever human life is lost, whether through suicide or murder. Do you not realize that while the Church permits capital punishment, it only does so in very specific circumstances (for instance, if the state does not have the capability to keep the convict behind bars and he/she is too much of a risk to society… this is almost impossible to justify in any modern country with top-security prisons). For Pete’s sake, this isn’t the wild, wild west, this is America in 2005 and we are Catholics modeling our behavior after Christ, not “cowboys and indians” dragging people out behind the barn and “dealing with them”.

Dear Tar Ashley,
I can understand you having strong feelings at something this horrific, but mental illness is a very real disorder. Calling the woman an idiot is really beyond unkind. Our Lord loves us no matter what our sins, you know. And, mental illness probably mitigated that woman’s culpability more than most sins.

Can you imagine how she will feel when she realized what happened? Schiztophrenia is a horrible disorder of the brain chemistry, you know. This is very sad.

P.S.
You might have trouble personally dealing with these events, but you really ought to not post your harsh judgements of the mentally ill on a posting board. It’s very upsetting for others who have mentally ill friends or family members. I have a good friend whose son has schiztophenia. It’s a terrible cross to bear. “But for the grace of God go I”

anyone who murders children should be put to death. i dont care the circumstances, my sister suffered terribly with post pardum depression, but she would never have hurt my neice, and shes a single mom so she had to do it without a man to help her. she still has never so much as spanked my neice. The man who murdered my three students was a coward and commited suicide, i believe the state should have had the opportunity to punish him, after giving him a trial of course because that is after all “the law” some things would be handled better had we still gone by the laws of the old. Illness is an excuse 9 times out of 10, and even if you are “ill” or “depressed” If you hurt a child, thats it the end, good night. sorry im not as forgiving as others. I believe in the death penalty, i think its necesary to maintain law and order. after all an Eye for an Eye. now i dont believe in all cases that death penalty should be an option, but when something as SICK as this occurs or that horrible woman who drowned her three children, well i believe its a good case for capital punishment.

[quote=spiritblows]Dear Tar Ashley,
I can understand you having strong feelings at something this horrific, but mental illness is a very real disorder. Calling the woman an idiot is really beyond unkind. Our Lord loves us no matter what our sins, you know. And, mental illness probably mitigated that woman’s culpability more than most sins.

Can you imagine how she will feel when she realized what happened? Schiztophrenia is a horrible disorder of the brain chemistry, you know. This is very sad.

P.S.
You might have trouble personally dealing with these events, but you really ought to not post your harsh judgements of the mentally ill on a posting board. It’s very upsetting for others who have mentally ill friends or family members. I have a good friend whose son has schiztophenia. It’s a terrible cross to bear. “But for the grace of God go I”
[/quote]

This is a public forum. as long as i am not breaking the rules i can post what i feel. like i said my sister suffered from post pardum depression, i had a friend in high school who suffered from Manic depression. as a former psyh student i have seen the illness first hand and what it does. but i still believe a person should be held responsible for their actions. if i get depressed one night, drink till im wasted get behind the wheel of a car and kill an innocent family, i should go to jail and stay there for a very very very long time. but hey i wasnt in my right mind, i was wasted and therefore can not be held liable for my actions. its not a far stretch of the imagination. and unless you have ever felt the loss personally from a situation like this, you could not possibly understand where my resentment comes from. I buried three students, young children because of a man who had a so called mental illness. he commited suicide and i got counseling because i had no closure. he murdered three children i cared very much for. and his wife defended his actions. i can not understand that. i can not forgive that. its my own weakness and fault and discharity i admit that and i pray often for a change of heart. but that change hasnt happened yet.

That woman is not an animal, she is a woman with a tortured mind who suffers a great deal. We don’t know her story, she may have also had a horrific childhood herself. Calling her an animal is really disturbing, Tar Ashley.

You mentioned the woman who drowned her kids in the bathtub. That’s a case I did follow. I think she ended up being sent to a mental institute, isn’t that so? I was glad about that. Having read the entire circumstances about her situation, she was definately mentally ill and not morally responsible for her crime, in my opinion.

There are some people who really aren’t in their right minds, Tar Ashley. It really is so. They may kill themselves or others under the influence of disordered thinking from schitzophenia. Please try and restrain yourself in how you characterize these poor souls.

[quote=TarAshly]anyone who murders children should be put to death. i dont care the circumstances, my sister suffered terribly with post pardum depression, but she would never have hurt my neice, and shes a single mom so she had to do it without a man to help her. she still has never so much as spanked my neice. The man who murdered my three students was a coward and commited suicide, i believe the state should have had the opportunity to punish him, after giving him a trial of course because that is after all “the law” some things would be handled better had we still gone by the laws of the old. Illness is an excuse 9 times out of 10, and even if you are “ill” or “depressed” If you hurt a child, thats it the end, good night. sorry im not as forgiving as others. I believe in the death penalty, i think its necesary to maintain law and order, after all i am from Texas. after all an Eye for an Eye. now i dont believe in all cases that death penalty should be an option, but when something as SICK as this occurs or that horrible woman who drowned her three children, put em down like the animals they are.
[/quote]

mmm hmm… Quick question. Do you form your identity primarily as a Catholic and secondarily as a Texan or vice versa? Just curious.

ps Eye for an eye is an Old Testament emphasis (used predominantly by protestants this day who have somehow missed much of the teaching of Jesus and the New Testament, and of course do not adhere to Church teaching) not found nearly as much in the New Testament or current Church teaching. I recommend re-reading the Beatitudes in the Gospels.

[quote=Steph700]My guess is you haven’t had to deal with post-pardem depression in your family. I have, it’s serious business, it’s a chemical issue and it changes personalities and behavior. This woman has done a very terrible thing- I don’t know if she had this depression or if she had another mental illness, but either way when she comes to her senses my guess is that she will be suicidal. She should be punished, but going for the dealth penalty is inappropriate.

[/quote]

Quite frankly, I have had it with adults killing children. Whatever prevention we are taking to stop it is not working. Assigning her to work 14 hours a day for the rest of her life in the cause of ending abortion might be adequate.

[quote=spiritblows]Dear Tar Ashley,
I can understand you having strong feelings at something this horrific, but mental illness is a very real disorder. Calling the woman an idiot is really beyond unkind. Our Lord loves us no matter what our sins, you know. And, mental illness probably mitigated that woman’s culpability more than most sins.

Can you imagine how she will feel when she realized what happened? Schiztophrenia is a horrible disorder of the brain chemistry, you know. This is very sad.

P.S.
You might have trouble personally dealing with these events, but you really ought to not post your harsh judgements of the mentally ill on a posting board. It’s very upsetting for others who have mentally ill friends or family members. I have a good friend whose son has schiztophenia. It’s a terrible cross to bear. “But for the grace of God go I”
[/quote]

Killing the innocent is unacceptable in a civilized society whether you have a mental illness or not.

[quote=Brad]Quite frankly, I have had it with adults killing children. Whatever prevention we are taking to stop it is not working. Assigning her to work 14 hours a day for the rest of her life in the cause of ending abortion might be adequate.
[/quote]

Fine. And let the judge come up with whatever creative punishment best suits the incident. But don’t put her to death. That’s all I’m saying.

i went back and edited my post, i read into my own discharity. i cant help it, it infuriates me to see people get away with these types of crimes. but my belief is mine and your belief is yours, if you didnt want the other side in here, label your thread “only anti death penalty posts please” my mind wont be changed on this im sorry. like i said, until you feel it personally.

[quote=Steph700]Fine. And let the judge come up with whatever creative punishment best suits the incident. But don’t put her to death. That’s all I’m saying.
[/quote]

There is nothing suitable except death in this case. thats just my opinion. or we can do with what we did with that Houston woman, stick her in a hospital tell and take away all culpability. sorry, not good enough. This is going to turn into the La Llorona defense all over again and im sick of hearing it. Im with Brad on this one, enough is enough.

[quote=spiritblows]That woman is not an animal, she is a woman with a tortured mind who suffers a great deal. We don’t know her story, she may have also had a horrific childhood herself. Calling her an animal is really disturbing, Tar Ashley.

[/quote]

A bad childhood is no excuse for killing children.

Perhaps the family should be arrested for not stopping her when she said she was going to feed her kids to the sharks.

Why did she have custody of these children?

She is responsible for the crime. Whether she is morally culpable is a question for God.

Anyone that murders children is not in their “right mind”. That does not mean free passes should be distributed.

Do you not see the danger here? I could make a case for anyone that kills children that they are mentally ill. But it is never an answer to anyone’s problem. Never. As a society, we need to make this crystal clear. We are doing a very poor job of this as we allow the unborn child to be murdered every day.

AGREED!

[quote=Brad]A bad childhood is no excuse for killing children.

Perhaps the family should be arrested for not stopping her when she said she was going to feed her kids to the sharks.

Why did she have custody of these children?

She is responsible for the crime. Whether she is morally culpable is a question for God.

Anyone that murders children is not in their “right mind”. That does not mean free passes should be distributed.

Do you not see the danger here? I could make a case for anyone that kills children that they are mentally ill. But it is never an answer to anyone’s problem. Never. As a society, we need to make this crystal clear. We are doing a very poor job of this as we allow the unborn child to be murdered every day.
[/quote]

For the record, I never advocated letting these people off scott free. I was responding only the Tar Ashley’s post, which was purely based on her horror and anger about tragic cases that she knows about, and not based in knowledge of mental illness or compassion for it’s sufferers.

I think that people with this severe of mental problems should probably be locked up for life in a mental facility, because even if they control it with meds, there’s always the chance they’ll get off their meds. Unless halfway houses monitor that well enough, society needs to be protected.

And, just because someone knows someone who has schitzophenia who didn’t murder someone, doesn’t mean anything. That illness has many different forms. Probably these women suffered from the paranoid variety.

Yes, it’s terrible that children, or anyone, is murdered. But even that horrific crime can be caused by mental illness and it’s sufferer deserves compassion.

Here’s a site that gives more info on this disease.

psychnet-uk.com/clinical_psychology/clinical_psychology_schizophrenia2_types.htm

So, let’s not start calling mentally ill people idiots or animals, okay? Part of this is the fact that we all, everyone of us, lives in a fallen world, where things go wrong because this world is not longer a perfect reflection of God’s glory. There are people born with terrible illnesses, including mental illnesses. Sometimes these illnesses bring suffering on others. In this case, the illness of schitzophenia appeared to many as an evil crime. But, this may not be the case. It might simply be brain wiring gone terribly wrong, bringing about this terrible event.

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