Tim Burton and the culture of death

I don’t believe it to be evil. I just think death, darkness, and most things goth fascinate him. If he was truly evil he would incorporate ideas that contradict the themes of his movies. Such as Corpse Bride- love never dies
Edward scissor hands- Everyone is different and it is beautiful.
He wouldn’t put such positive themes in his movie if he were evil.

Agreed. I previously posted the following with regard to Corpse Bride as an example -

I think a lot of people confuse the setting of a movie with the values of a movie. Yes the SETTING might be a bit morbid and with some dark humor, but what is the key takeaway from the movie?

I think Depp actually passed away about 7 years ago and is now a zombie controlled by Tim Burton.


Control away then, because he’s one of my all time favorite actors. He’s tied with Colin Firth.

I believe they also paid out Billy Dee Williams from the first film, to cast Tommy Lee Jones . He took the role because he would eventually get to play Harvey Dent as Two Face

Right. Catholics are morally obligated by the Church to think of only sweet sunshine, meadows, and laughing children. :rolleyes:

Rather ironic since we’re the religion that introduced gothic gravestones, gargoyles, and dark cathedrals.

I don’t know what universe you’re living in but dead things don’t walk, talk, and, in some cases, drink fine wine with you.

And what’s wrong with Emily? She seems a nice person… even though she’s dead.

Well I’m sick of glowing angels, plate armored morons charging “For God and Glory!”, and stereotypical shallowness of “Beautiful blonde = good person while thing with horns = bad”.

I’m likely to gag more from those things than you from the dark stuff.

Oh! Zombie Johnny Depp? in Jack Sparrow voice Much more better! >BD

Yes that’s right, he cast a revised version of Dick Greyson as a young teenage Negro superhero against a Negro Two-Face villian…

I wonder how that would have gone down in Hollywood and what the infamously picky DC film fans would have thought of that. Remember how they hollered at Burton changing Joker into the killer of Batman’s Parents? I wonder what those fans would have made of this!

No problem with that at all. The current Robin is half Arabic in the comics after all. The problem with the Joker been the murderer of Bruce’s parents was based on other concerns.

Quarter Arabic, quarter, Chinese, half Anglo-Saxon if I’m not mistaken, right? Call me crazy, but I more inclined towards Talia than Selena. :smiley: Someone make a Batman thread!

@edwest2: Dude, you need to start looking at the sunnier side of life. One toy, does not define the man. Anyway, who’s to say Burton actually had much artistic input in the toy line beyond signing his name away?

I’ll start a Batman thread if you like. I’m only inclined towards Talia if Denny O’Neill or Mike Barr are writing her and an artist like Neal Adams is drawing her. I like Selina when she is portrayed well as she manages to loosen Bruce up a bit.One of the better portrayals of her in recent years was in Alan Davis’ story ‘The Nail’, atlthough that is not part of regular continuity. He shows her as a flirtatious villain and one who likes to use her sexuality and flaunt it but she also has many redeeming qualities in that story and plainly cares deeply about others and is instrumental in breaking Bruce out of a cycle of depression and restoringsome meaning to his life. Grant Morrison managed to do some interesting and vibrant in his usual crazy way with the Bat titles for the first time in years.

I’ve seen the toys referenced here, they sell them in my local comicbook shop, Not my cup of tea, but then I’ve never been one for that sort of spin off stuff. I certainly don’t consider them reflective of Tim buying into a ‘culture of death’ though. If use of skull and crossbones and similar motifs was proof of that well Catholic art would stand convicted on many, many counts!

I do look at the sunnier side of life but it does not include graphic blood and gore, or TV shows about cutting up people or soft-core porn, like Spartacus.

I work in the media and my media company catches criticism for any little detail people don’t like. It’s common. We’ve done character licensing and trust me, everything has to be approved by the rights owner, in this case, Mr. Burton. In one case, because of my art background, I was given a large stack of color art to look over for a video game based on our characters. "My instructions were simple: “Put the good stuff in one stack, the bad stuff in another, and the art that needs changes in a third.” It’s just not reasonable or responsible to just sign off on anything. Imagine being a creator and seeing your toy on sale and thinking, “Did I approve this for production?” And what do you say when people don’t like it? “I didn’t know or really care.”?

We are a family friendly company and avoid the gore, and boys with nails in their eyes, and even though we do some horror fiction, it’s not presented in this super-graphic way, though it is scary, including the art.


And those Mexicans with their Day of the Dead Celebrations! :rolleyes:


Not to mention Sedlec Ossuary in the Czech republic which is of course a Catholic Chapel:-

Not forgetting Sedlec Ossuary in the Czech Republic:-

Sick of glowing angels? Blondes who happen to be beautiful? Why? What makes them incapable of actually being good. There’s no more a problem with a person being blonde or shiny than a person being dark and pale. I, personally, would like to see actual racial diversity on television.

How many Native Americans have you seen take major roles in a movie or TV show? I’ve seen (literally) one. How about Asian people? Black people? Do they get good roles. No, the black guy is always the funny side-kick or the ghetto dude. The Asian is always the nerd or the villain. The Native American has had one person take roles which do not include feather headdresses or a tom-tom.

On another note, why do white people always portray us Africans as starving? We’re not all starving. And many of us do not have AIDS, believe it or not. Truly, the dead and dark stuff is often disturbing and unhealthy, and I don’t see why people should insist that it is absolutely necessary to be there for their movie satisfaction, and never consider putting anyone who isn’t white on screen. Just saying.

I’m not so much saying a character can live up to a stereotype. It just so happens it’s getting tiresome (in the same way dark-themed stereotypes get tiresome). The truth is you and I are more alike here.

In fact, I go beyond race in a way. As a fantasy nerd, I even tend to go beyond archetype definitions for my own creations when it suits my tastes.

The issues start when absolutists come in and start legislating standards as if they were moral imperatives. “Your character must be evilz cuz he haz horns and magic baaaad!”

Well excuse me if I prefer to sick firebolts on my enemies instead of charging with a big sword.

In the end, it boils down to taste. The real problem arises when people confuse their taste with morality (for a good example, look to edwest’s comments).

Personally, I like the dark themes of some Burton’s work simply because… well I like it. I dark colors. I like grim looking characters. Heck, the only bright and blonde thing I find attractive are pretty, gullible ingenues (and part of my reasons why is because I have a thing for contrasting pairings).

Sure I can rationalize it but in the end, that’s it boils down to. Sadly, others think having a moral absolutes think you must also have absolutes regarding visual arts and appearances.

Things like this confirm my opinion of Johnny Depp…

Johnny Depp on his characterization of Willy Wonka

He’s an idiot, on and off-screen.


I think that’s fabulous myself, ‘I tried to imagine what George Bush would be like incredibly stoned’ as inspiraiton for playing Willy Wonka is great.

I thought the thread was about Tim Burton myself, Johnny Depp is associated with Mr. Burton but he doesn’t appear in every single thing Tim Burton has made by any means.

I thought it was brilliant. Not sure how it makes Depp an idiot. And yes, Depp isn’t in every film by Burton, but they do have a creative relationship of some sort. Not unusual. Robert De Niro has appeared in many of Martin Sorcese’s films and lately so has Leonardo DiCaprio. It seems many directors have a “favorite” go to actor of sorts.

Yes, to reach further back John Ford liked Wayne (oddly enough given their hugely differing political outlooks) and our fellow Catholic Hitchcock prefered Jimmy Stewart as a leading man and used him quite a lot.

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