Time Lapse - Prof. of Faith to Baptism


#1

What needs to happen before an adult can be baptized in the Catholic Church? Does it depend on the person? How long does it take?

Good night.:slight_smile:


#2

It can take up to a year of formation. I don’t know what the minimum time might be - it would of course depend on the person’s circumstances and background. But the public “profession of faith” happens at the end of that formation, not at the beginning, so I guess the answer to your question is “a few minutes”.


#3

Good answer VM. :thumbsup:


#4

It seems inconsistent that an adult must go through classes (for a year?) to ensure their knowledge and obedience prior to baptism, while you also baptize babies with no knowledge or faith.

-Tim


#5

Baptism is the new circumcision (Col. 2:11-12).

In that passage, St. Paul refers to baptism as “the circumcision of Christ” and “the circumcision made without hands.” Of course, usually only infants were circumcised under the Old Law; circumcision of adults was rare, since there were few converts to Judaism. If Paul meant to exclude infants, he would not have chosen circumcision as a parallel for baptism.

This comparison between who could receive baptism and circumcision is an appropriate one. In the Old Testament, if a man wanted to become a Jew, he had to believe in the God of Israel and be circumcised. In the New Testament, if one wants to become a Christian, one must believe in God and Jesus and be baptized. In the Old Testament, those born into Jewish households could be circumcised in anticipation of the Jewish faith in which they would be raised. Thus in the New Testament, those born in Christian households can be baptized in anticipation of the Christian faith in which they will be raised. The pattern is the same: If one is an adult, one must have faith before receiving the rite of membership; if one is a child too young to have faith, one may be given the rite of membership in the knowledge that one will be raised in the faith. This is the basis of Paul’s reference to baptism as “the circumcision of Christ”—that is, the Christian equivalent of circumcision.

catholic.com/library/infant_baptism.asp


#6

Infant baptism takes away the original sin from the infant. It is practiced by the Early Church, and even in Acts. Jesus also told us that we should not hinder the children from coming to him.

Luke 18:15–16 tells us that “they were bringing even infants” to Jesus; and he himself related this to the kingdom of God: “Let the children come to me
. . . for to such belongs the kingdom of God.”

The apostolic Church baptized whole “households” (Acts 16:33; 1 Cor. 1:16), a term encompassing children and infants as well as servants. While these texts do not specifically mention—nor exclude—infants, the very use of the term “households” indicates an understanding of the family as a unit. Even one believing parent in a household makes the children and even the unbelieving spouse “holy” (1 Cor. 7:14).

Irenaeus

“He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age” (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

“‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan’ [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5]” (Fragment 34 [A.D. 190]).

Hippolytus

“Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them” (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).


#7

The only “inconsistency” is the one created by God, who chose that infants would not be capable of intellectual understanding and assent to anything (I won’t guess about spiritual understanding and assent, given the example of John leaping in the womb), but that adults would be capable of intellectual understanding and assent.

We would do a disservice to infants by denying them entrance into the Church based to their infant-sized (lack of) abilities, and we would do a disservice to adults by allowing them into the Church without engaging their adult-sized abilities in the process.


#8

it takes as long as it takes
search on RCIA and read the fine resources and links here.


#9

An adult can be baptized as soon as he has gone through RCIA class. RCiA teaches about the faith and so the adult will know the foundation of his new faith. But the adult can choose to wait even after his RCIA class is done and not be baptized til he is ready.

An infant can be baptized without taking a class, but his parents must take a couple of class, it is assumed that the parents have the faith and going to teach the faith to their child.


#10

infants (under age of reason) are baptized in the faith of their parents and godparents, who do undergo some instruction in preparation for baptism, and have presumably themselves been catechized.


#11

If you look at Acts 2 and all throughout the book of Acts you will find this is not normal. I look at this as a problem. When I was born again through the Word of God and by the Spirit of God, I was baptized immediately for I was commanded to do so.

There is also another issue with Catholic teaching. It calls it a parallel to baptism but then they say that baptism saves. In the case of Abraham, we see that Abraham was justified outside of circumcision…

Ro 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

This is the assertion by Protestants, that we are born again by the Word of God…

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Ps 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Anyway…waiting 1 year for baptism to “test drive” or “prove out” a professor of Christ is not scriptural.


#12

Actually, if I’m not mistaken, you were saved when you were baptized in the Catholic Church as an infant.

It’s my understanding that you left the Church and went through a second baptism which was sacramentally meaningless since there is "one baptism for the forgiveness of sins’ and seems somehow offensive to God - the implication being that the Covenant of which you were made a part when you were young was somehow deficient requiring a second baptism.

Please note the qualifying phrases…my apologies if I am in error.

My own sister, btw, who has never been Catholic, has been baptized three times - once as an infant, and twice more when she got saved and then saved again.

At what point does this become intellectually and theologically embarassing for the folks engaging in this nonsense?


#13

You can profess Christ as much as you can whenever you can, with or without bapism. However, as an adult coming into the church, you must demonstrate that your prepared to live up to the expectations that come with belonging to God’s family.


#14

I just knew this was coming.

You folks baptize first and then teach the faith. Based on your model, a person really has no clue what faith they are being baptized into. A person who has not first “test driven” (to use your trite phrase) the faith is acting purely on an emotion which may or may not have anything at all to do with the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church is more cautious, so it teaches the basics of the faith first, before baptizing. Heaven forbid that a person would actually understand the faith they were being baptized into. What a tragedy that would be. :eek:

BTW, I find it interesting that you promote taking the most important step in any human’s life with far less preparation than buying a used car. And you think that’s a good thing!


#15

I don’t know what could be more clear. St. Paul tells us that baptism is the new circumcision. Infants were circumcised in Judaism. Infants are baptised in Christianity. Why is this concept giving you difficulty?


#16

You can be baptized at any time barring the Priest’s schedule.


#17

[quote=VociMike]I just knew this was coming.

You folks baptize first and then teach the faith. Based on your model, a person really has no clue what faith they are being baptized into. A person who has not first “test driven” (to use your trite phrase) the faith is acting purely on an emotion which may or may not have anything at all to do with the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church is more cautious, so it teaches the basics of the faith first, before baptizing. Heaven forbid that a person would actually understand the faith they were being baptized into. What a tragedy that would be.

BTW, I find it interesting that you promote taking the most important step in any human’s life with far less preparation than buying a used car. And you think that’s a good thing!
[/quote]

With all due respect, Mike, that is the sequence given by the Lord Himself:Matthew 28:19-20

“Go therefore and make disciples…baptizing them…teaching them….”


#18

Your editing of Matthew 28:19-20 has been noted.

Now let’s look at the unedited version:

19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and** teaching them to obey** everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Teaching them to *obey *everything (He) has commanded them is rather different than teaching them the faith.

In fact, this passage says the exact opposite to me than what you were trying to assert. It seems to be saying “make disciples of all nations” (i.e. teach all nations the faith)… then baptize them… then teach them to obey everything Christ has commanded 9(i.e. once they have learned the faith and been baptized, teach them how to persist in their faith to the end).


#19
  1. Make disciples of all nations.

  2. Baptize them.

  3. Teach them to obey all that Christ commanded.

Let’s break this down:

  1. What is a disciple? A disciple is a “person who believes the teaching of another or who adopts and follows some doctrine”. (Definition here: english-test.net/sat/vocabulary/words/008/sat-definitions.php )
    So, the first step is to go to all nations and teach people to believe and adopt the teachings of Christ.

  2. Then, baptize them.

  3. Teach them to obey all that Christ commanded. One they have learned the faith and believed, baptize them. Then teach them how to persist in their faith.

This is very obvious. This is describing the Catholic way.


#20

A person cannot be a disciple if he is not taught the faith first. Here is the definition of disciple. “Main Entry: dis·ci·ple
Pronunciation: di-'sI-p&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English discipul & Anglo-French disciple, from Late Latin and Latin; Late Latin discipulus follower of Jesus Christ in his lifetime, from Latin, pupil
1 : one who accepts and assists in spreading the doctrines of another: as a : one of the twelve in the inner circle of Christ’s followers according to the Gospel accounts b : a convinced adherent of a school or individual” from m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=disciple. A person who has not been taught the doctrines cannot accept them and assist in spreading them.


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