Time travel


#1

OK i posted in a thread in here having to do with philospophy and infinity and i meantioned Grand Unification Theory:

"Photons are recongnized as having no mass, and are thus able to travel at the speed of light. figure a mass of 0 into reletivity and then solve the Schrodenger wavefunction equation for its probability distribution, and i think (not sure) you get a value that is an imaginary number, assuming you can separate and solve the Hammiltonian and estimate the Eigenfunctions. Once the hammiltonian is no longer a Hermitian Operator (a REAL number and not imaginary), quantum principles dont seem to work as well.

hence there is no reconciliation between reletivity and quantum mechanics. the attempt is called Grand Unification Theory (GUT). Newtonian mechanics are a special case (very low velocities) of reletivity.

GUT is sometimes called God’s Ultimate Test, meaning that it will probably be right near the end of Time before wed ever solve it. once we solve it, there would be almost nothing humans couldnt accomplish. Some say that time travel would be very possible, and hence humans would be able to travel back in time and potentially prevent Jesus from living, and annihilating the possibility of Salvation."

is it POSSIBLE that God’s physics that he wrote for this Universe allows time travel, and hence the possibility that a very evil human could travel back in time and say, prevent the conception of Mary? or an ancestor of theirs? If Jesus was never born because of human intervention, what would happen to Salvation? time travel does SEEM possible if one finds a way to solve GUT theory.

and because God exists outside of time, he would know that in the unaffected original timeline Jesus DID come to earth, how would he handle the NEW timeline where humans were never exposed to Christ? if the soul is immortal, then what would happen to those souls created for the original timeline?

if that doesnt fry your brain…but the possibility DOES exist.


#2

Actually, you’re travelling through time right now, as you read this. :smiley:

In the forward direction, of course.


#3

I’m not nearly far enough if physics to understand problems when time is a variable. But it seems to me if someone was bent on changing the past it would happen without us knowing it, as they’re altering the timeflow as it’s in motion. A flow that we all go with.

No?


#4

[quote=BioCatholic]Some say that time travel would be very possible, and hence humans would be able to travel back in time and potentially prevent Jesus from living, and annihilating the possibility of Salvation."

is it POSSIBLE that God’s physics that he wrote for this Universe allows time travel, and hence the possibility that a very evil human could travel back in time and say, prevent the conception of Mary? or an ancestor of theirs? If Jesus was never born because of human intervention, what would happen to Salvation? time travel does SEEM possible if one finds a way to solve GUT theory.

[/quote]

I don’t believe it really exists, because if someone could travel back in time and prevent Jesus from living, then it would never have happened in the first place. Now IF it were possible, and it did happen and the the timeline changed, then the person wouldn’t know that they would have to go back in time to change things because they would never had experienced Jesus, and they therefore wouldn’t go back in time and try to prevent Jesus from being born and then he would be born… Time travel is not only improbable, it is impossible…

In Him,
Tim


#5

If time travel were to happen…why haven’t we met anyone from the future yet? I suppose it could explain those U.F.O’s…

God would Block the travel dates from the year that Jesus were born to the year 33… :cool:


#6

[quote=Lillith]If time travel were to happen…why haven’t we met anyone from the future yet? I suppose it could explain those U.F.O’s…

God would Block the travel dates from the year that Jesus were born to the year 33… :cool:
[/quote]

you know that might not be unreasonable. the year of the start of Jesus’ ministry could be an inflection point in time. where as you approach that point, the slope of the tangent begins to change, sometimes severly and dramatically. it might be probable that the change at this inflection point is so drastic, and the rate of change so immense, that one might “over or undershoot” the timepoints.

that is, without prior knowlegde of the rate of change and the second order derivative of the sigmoidal 3rd order function, one couldnt get close enough to the years of Jesus.

that still doesnt prevent someone from going 200 years or more prior and eliminating an ancestor though.

although thats funny. God’s version of blackout dates. maybe we should switch to Captial One. BWAHHAHAHAHa.

“What’s in your time machine?”


#7

When time travel becomes this seriously discussed, one can’t afford to forget the Infinite Worlds Theory. Which is a whole new can of worms that I think the Church wouldn’t like too much.


#8

I think it will be funny someday when someone goes 10 times the speed of light. There gonna be surprised when the only thing they managed was to go very fast. I just cant believe that the universe is a VCR tape waiting to be rewound when we hit light speed.

-D


#9

Well, I was watching Superman and he started going round and round and round the world…ah sorry had to try.

If you change things and Jesus wasn’t born, then later on with everything in the world being different as different events occure, then there is a good chance that you will not be born as you are, or the world might be destroyed by the time it gets to the point that techonology is there. It could be that the world is branched off into another parallel timeline. In eternal time Jesus would have been born, because he was born in one of those time lines.

It could also be that God could choose another to give birth to Jesus.

Also God could send Jesus down in the End Times, at the time of God’s choosing.


#10

Interesting discussion but everyone is overlooking one thing – even time travel were possible, it would be impossible for humans to travel backward through time.

Before anyone comes down on me, let me state that I’m going to do this from memory so my figures may be off but the general idea is the same …

Photons, because they has no at rest mass can travel at the speed of light. Matter can not be made to accelerate to that speed. Electrons, which have very little mass, can only travel at around 40% the speed of light. Protons & Neutrons travel even slower. I believe that it is something like 12-16% the speed of light. If you try to make them travel faster than that, they break apart into individual quarks and you no longer have Protons & Neutrons.

Atoms have an even slower speed limit. If memory serves me correctly, it is around 5% the speed of light. Try moving an atom faster than that and they break apart into protons, neutrons and electrons and you no longer have an atom but it’s subatomic particles.

Molocules travel even slower. I believe that they can obtain an upper limit of only about 1% the speed of light before they break down into individual atoms. Cells can travel much slower thn molocules and living cells even slower still. Again, don’t hold me to these numbers because I’m trying to remember them from memory but I think living cells can only achieve an upper limit of 0.025% or 0.1% the speed of light (I know that is a big gap but I honestly don’t recall which one it is but which ever number it is, it is still significantly slower than the speed of light and eliminates the possibility of time travel).

Finally, just because a living cell can travel at that speed, doesn’t mean that a living creature can do so as well. Our individual tissues and organs may be killed off at a lower speed than is needed to kill off a living cell.


#11

Time travel is impossible. The future doesn’t exist yet. The past doesn’t exist anymore. There is no future or past to travel to.

– Mark L. Chance.


#12

A few things to consider on this matter…

  1. A Particle can reach any speed (below C ) so long as the acceleration is slow enough, Its not the speed that kills but acceleration. (F =MA)

  2. If there is ONE timeline, then even if time travel is possible, and someone went back to change it, He Failed. Otherwise we wouldnt be haveing this debate. You cant change the temporal properties of one part of the chain. You change oen part, all parts change instantly. So, even if someone tries in the future, we know he failed because Jesus was raised from the dead.

  3. If there is Multiple Timelines: Would not effect this time line as it already exists, all he would do is create a NEW timeline where Jesus never existed. Here is the catch, he can NEVER return to his own timeline. Why? because the moment he changes things, he exists in a new time line that is severed and seperate from the original timeline. The two ‘univeses’ exists now outside eachother. This is the version I believe. Any future ‘timetravels’ would see it as futile as it would not effect their own time line. If I went bacl to kill htler… this time line would know about it still, but the new time line wouldnt, but I cant come back to this line because ot is no longer a part of this universe.

  4. God would never allow this anyway. I doubt we can ever do anything to ever change the plans and will of god.

In Christ


#13

[quote=mlchance]Time travel is impossible. The future doesn’t exist yet. The past doesn’t exist anymore. There is no future or past to travel to.

– Mark L. Chance.
[/quote]

I agree completely.

Time is simply a measure of change. If you travel to the “past” and change something, that change is actually happening in the future – not the past.


#14

[quote=BioCatholic]…
is it POSSIBLE that God’s physics that he wrote for this Universe allows time travel, and hence the possibility that a very evil human could travel back in time …
[/quote]

This topic interested me greatly back in the mid 1980’s when I was in college, and some of us talked about it at length seriously, trying to make use of our scientific knowledge just as I see some of you doing now.

But as another person already indicated, we “are” traveling through time already, in the forward direction. In fact, to do anything, we need to be going in the forward direction in time, even if we were going back in time. In fact, “time” is nothing other than the measurement between one physical action to the next. God could stop time and we would never know it physically, because stopping time implies stopping all physical processes.

Certain ideas in this regard, such as infinite parallel universes or physically going back in time to meet yourself don’t make sense for the very reason that we are not “there” right now. We are only in one place because God joined our soul to our body.

However, I do believe that in the spirit we may transcend both time and location barriers, by the power of God. God Himself is present to all moments in time and all places, too. He applies our prayers to past and future. In the history of time, He has applied the merits of Christ in anticipation of what He knew He was going to accomplish later in time. Not that He undoes anything in the past, but all things in the “past” included all possible future helps. Also, God reveals the future and past to His prophets.

hurst


#15

Here is something to consider. God is outside of time, and He sees your past, present and future as His now. Let us assume that in your future you will be a saint in Heaven. For God, your future life as a saint is a reality in God’s now, and all connection that we have to the communion of saints in Heaven is through Jesus who is outside of time as we know it.

My question is this: can you pray through Jesus to your future self as a saint of the Church Triumphant, and ask your future self to intercede for you in your life on earth? :smiley:


#16

I think you’ve watched too many episodes of Stargate SG-1.


#17

[quote=Matt16_18]Here is something to consider. God is outside of time, and He sees your past, present and future as His now. Let us assume that in your future you will be a saint in Heaven. For God, your future life as a saint is a reality in God’s now, and all connection that we have to the communion of saints in Heaven is through Jesus who is outside of time as we know it.

My question is this: can you pray through Jesus to your future self as a saint of the Church Triumphant, and ask your future self to intercede for you in your life on earth? :smiley:
[/quote]

That’s called talking to yourself. Even wicked people can do that.


#18

[quote=Matt16_18]Here is something to consider. God is outside of time, and He sees your past, present and future as His now. Let us assume that in your future you will be a saint in Heaven. For God, your future life as a saint is a reality in God’s now, and all connection that we have to the communion of saints in Heaven is through Jesus who is outside of time as we know it.

My question is this: can you pray through Jesus to your future self as a saint of the Church Triumphant, and ask your future self to intercede for you in your life on earth? :smiley:
[/quote]

Instead, let’s be a little safer and imagine ourselves on the day of judgment when all creatures will witness, in the sight of God, everything we have done, both good and bad (including our thoughts and motives).

I keep this in mind often when I have bad thoughts about someone, and I close my eyes, imagine all creation just saw that during the General Judgment, and offer an apology specifically to that person, who is surely watching in astonishment.

If you think “big brother” or hidden cams are a threat to your “privacy”, you have not sufficiently considered the Reign of God and His Justice! All is laid bare before Him, and it will be made known to all creatures so that He may be exonerated and glorified forever. (1 Cor 4:5, Apoc 20:12)

In this light, I think we as Christians should be doing “time-travel” quite often!

hurst


#19

[quote=mlchance]Time travel is impossible. The future doesn’t exist yet. The past doesn’t exist anymore. There is no future or past to travel to.

– Mark L. Chance.
[/quote]

The trouble with talking about the past, is that it is not a discrete quantity - one can’t (so to say) draw a box round it, and say “That’s the past, and here’s the present - we are in one, but not in the other”.

I like the description of time as “a moving image of eternity”.

IMO, they are one indivisible thing, not three bounded things which can be treated as discrete quantities.

  • ##*

#20

[quote=Matt16_18]Here is something to consider. God is outside of time, and He sees your past, present and future as His now. Let us assume that in your future you will be a saint in Heaven. For God, your future life as a saint is a reality in God’s now, and all connection that we have to the communion of saints in Heaven is through Jesus who is outside of time as we know it.

My question is this: can you pray through Jesus to your future self as a saint of the Church Triumphant, and ask your future self to intercede for you in your life on earth? :smiley:
[/quote]

Isn’t like praying for the Reformation or the 1378 Schism not to happen ? :slight_smile:

The trouble with suggesting they could “un-happen”, is that the suggestion seems to imply that our human choices and acts can be reversed - I think that God takes what we do, and works with it, and makes it a means of His action in the world; that He writes straight with our crooked lines, not by stopping them being crooked in the first place, but by using their crookedness for His good purposes - and, it may be, making our evil into the means of a greater good than would have been had we not sinned.

We are within history & within time in a way that is different from God’s Presence “in” it - we are not transcendent, nor are we infinite Being. He is. So to change it, would mean a change in us, and so, changing the mode of activity proper to us men. Which would mess with the Incarnation. He sees all in “at one view”, unconditioned by creatureliness of any kind whatever - we, very obviously :slight_smile: do not. ISTMS. ##


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