TLM in St. Peter's

Ever heard of a news that a TLM was held in St. Peters Basilica (after VII)? Can you show some pics if you have.

Here ya go : unavoce-ve.it/05-03-36.htm

[quote=SummaTheo]Here ya go : unavoce-ve.it/05-03-36.htm
[/quote]

Thanks for posting this!

[quote=SummaTheo]Here ya go : unavoce-ve.it/05-03-36.htm
[/quote]

These beautiful pictures are from a TLM celebrated in St. Mary Major’s back in 2003, I remember watching highlights of it on EWTN. The Pope has allowed the TLM to be celebrated in St. Peter’s, the poster was wondering about this.

I don’t have pics and I don’t know where to find them but I have heard about it too. Pope Benedict(when he was Cardinal Ratzinger) held the first TLM since VII at St. Peters back in 2001 I think.

[quote=viktor aleksndr]Ever heard of a news that a TLM was held in St. Peters Basilica (after VII)? Can you show some pics if you have.
[/quote]

This picture was taken during Vatican II. Rather remarkable picture…

http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/3/1291/400/Second%20Vatican%20Council.jpg

[quote=Dropper]This picture was taken during Vatican II. Rather remarkable picture…

http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/3/1291/400/Second%20Vatican%20Council.jpg
[/quote]

Rather remarkable indeed.

Appears to be a very reverent Mass for a council that has deemed to of been at best heretical, by SSPX followers and other radical traditionalists.

[quote=Catholic29]Rather remarkable indeed.

Appears to be a very reverent Mass for a council that has deemed to of been at best heretical, by SSPX followers and other radical traditionalists.
[/quote]

That charge is a lie, you can hate the sspx all you want but do not spread disinformation and false accusations.

Pope John XXIII is using the same missal* as the SSPXers, which is the 1962 Missal.

*not exactly the same due to the fact a pope is offering it instead of a priest or bishop.

I am beginning to believe that people hate the sspx due to what people think they believe then what the sspx actually believe.

[quote=Dropper]This picture was taken during Vatican II. Rather remarkable picture…

http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/3/1291/400/Second%20Vatican%20Council.jpg
[/quote]

If you notice in the background, you can see a byzantine Deacon. He is the person with the stole on the outside.

Some interesting notes on a Solemn High Mass,
The main celebrant is in persona Christi,
the Deacon represents the gentiles who accepted Christ thus is on a higher level then the subdeacon.
The subdeacon represent the jewish church that has not accepted Christ thus is on the lowest level. Thus when the subdeacon chants the epistle, the main celebrant and deacon covers their heads, very similar to the way the jews prayed with their heads covered.

I know the subdeacon holds the paten underneath their humeral veil, there is a significance to it, I am not sure.

Towards the end of the Mass, the subdeacon is finally on the same level as the deacon, finally indicating that the Jews have accepted Jesus, a prophesy in which I heard that St. Elias will come down again to earth and help convert the Jews to Catholicism.

Anyone else hear something similar?

Does the pope typically wear the tiara during mass? Also, is it still the case that only the pope can celebrate at the main altar in St. Peter’s?

[quote=Iohannes]If you notice in the background, you can see a byzantine Deacon. He is the person with the stole on the outside.

Some interesting notes on a Solemn High Mass,
The main celebrant is in persona Christi,
the Deacon represents the gentiles who accepted Christ thus is on a higher level then the subdeacon.
The subdeacon represent the jewish church that has not accepted Christ thus is on the lowest level. Thus when the subdeacon chants the epistle, the main celebrant and deacon covers their heads, very similar to the way the jews prayed with their heads covered.

I know the subdeacon holds the paten underneath their humeral veil, there is a significance to it, I am not sure.

Towards the end of the Mass, the subdeacon is finally on the same level as the deacon, finally indicating that the Jews have accepted Jesus, a prophesy in which I heard that St. Elias will come down again to earth and help convert the Jews to Catholicism.

Anyone else hear something similar?
[/quote]

[quote=Iohannes]That charge is a lie, you can hate the sspx all you want but do not spread disinformation and false accusations.

Pope John XXIII is using the same missal* as the SSPXers, which is the 1962 Missal.

*not exactly the same due to the fact a pope is offering it instead of a priest or bishop.

I am beginning to believe that people hate the sspx due to what people think they believe then what the sspx actually believe.
[/quote]

I know John XIII is using the Tridentine Mass here, essentially the same Mass which the SSPX uses today.

As for my assertion of the SSPX considering Vatican II heretical, this is what I was able to gleen from what their offical website says:

[font=Arial][size=2]The Council itself both encouraged liberal trends (and its encouragement became post-Conciliar Vatican policy) and departed from traditional Catholic teaching, but it has no authority for either (

PRINCIPLE 5).
Our position must be:

" …we refuse… to follow the Rome of neo-Modernist and neo-Protestant tendencies which became clearly manifest during the Second Vatican Council and, after the Council, in all the reforms which issued from it." (Declaration of Archbishop Lefebvre,APPENDIX I) [/size][/font]sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q6_vaticanII.htm

If that is not a declaration of heresy, I don’t know what is…

[quote=Catholic29]I know John XIII is using the Tridentine Mass here, essentially the same Mass which the SSPX uses today.

As for my assertion of the SSPX considering Vatican II heretical, this is what I was able to gleen from what their offical website says:

sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q6_vaticanII.htm

If that is not a declaration of heresy, I don’t know what is…

[/indent]
[/quote]

my apologies, I misread your statement, It seemed that you said the “sspx thinks the Mass is heretical”.

[quote=Iohannes]my apologies, I misread your statement, It seemed that you said the “sspx thinks the Mass is heretical”.
[/quote]

No problem,

I was basically trying to say the “SSPX thinks the Council is heretical”. Which I think we both can agree they do, judging by their own statements.:wink:

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